Setting up a tropical fish tank.

[auntypurple]

I am just setting up a tropical fish tank, just wondered if someone can take a look at what I have done so far and see if it is ok, and if there is anything else I need to be doing.
The tank is second hand, I cleaned it as well as I could with just hot water, and it has a Aqua one external filter, which was filled with water from a mature tank.
The tank is 48x20x15 so roughly 240ltr. We got it all set up and running on Saturday, and put in 2 and half caps of stress coat and 2 and a half caps of stress zyme. Again put in 2 and a half caps of stress zyme on Monday, and will put in another 2 and a half caps on stress zyme in the morning.
I have got the Api liquid freshwater master test kit and have today done all the tests for the first time.
I have followed the instructions and have got readings of
PH - 6.8
High range PH - 7.4 (not sure if I actully needed to do this or not)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10
Ammonia - 0.25
So should I be doing anything else with this at the moment, or just leave it all alone?
I have googled but have come across alot of diffrent advice, and am getting a bit confused.
Thanks for reading.

[EauRouge]

Ooh, that's a nice big tank

For now you just need to do a fishless cycle. It takes ages but it will prevent exposing any fish to dangerous levels of ammonia which even if it doesn't kill them can shorten their lifespan considerably- not a good start! Here's how you do it. The water from a mature tank won't help but if you can get hold of some filter media (a bit of sponge or some of that ceramic stuff) from a healthy, mature tank then that will speed things along a bit.

Stress zyme is unfortunately a load of bolleux and does not do what it claims so you will still need to do the fishless cycle. It is likely to mess up your ammonia readings too so I would just stop using it. It's certainly not necessary in an established tank either.

The Stress Coat is needed to remove chloramine from the water, so carry on using that. You only need to dechlorinate water once so make sure you use it every time you do a water change. There are other dechlorinators available if Stress Coat is too expensive, as long as they say they remove chloramine and heavy metals then they are all pretty much the same. The aloe vera stuff is much-debated, some people say it can clog up a fish's gills. I don't use stuff with aloe vera in so I've no experience of it.

HTH :) if you need help choosing some fish then I will be glad to help out, I wish I had a 240 ltr tank but if I can vicariously set up yours then that will do

[auntypurple]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply, would love some help choosing fish, I have looked at so many and read so much my head is spinning, and I can't remember which fish will fight or bully the others.
It's really dd's tank, but I am doing all the donkey work, all she is going to be doing is looking at the fish, so she wants nice colourful fish, she said she wants a purple one, but I can't think of any that can live with other fish. I would love some sort of pleco in there, I think they are lovely. My dad had a big tank with a pleco looking fish (can't remember what it was now), and it grew quite quickly and bigger then we expected at the time. Maybe a small school of fish would be nice, but not sure at all.
I should have said the filter came with the tank, and the filter has been used for 6mths, so all the filter pads, balls, and other bits are still in it, as well as the water. The man I brought it from told me to get some new start stuff, and stress zyme and stress coat was what the shop sold me when I asked for it.
I will go and have a read of your link now, am doing the fishless cycle, just need to know how to do it properly. Am not considering putting any fish in untill the tank is good and ready. The shop I brought the bits and bobs from on Saturday told me to come back this Saturday coming to buy some fish. I know it takes longer than that, and won't be buying my fish from him when the time comes.

[auntypurple]

Oh I have just remembered I live in a soft water area too, is there anything I need to do about that?
Thank you :)

[EauRouge]

The filter bacteria from the filter will be dead by now, it only takes about 12 hours to die off completely without food (ammonia) and a flow of water so you'll still need to do the fishless cycle. Do you know anyone that's got a tank up and running?

How high does the pH go on the low range kit? Did you test the water in the tank or straight from the tap?

Soft water isn't a problem as long as you keep up with water changes. pH crashes (when the pH suddenly drops) can occur if the water is really soft and hasn't been refreshed for a while.

On the plus side, soft, acidic water is like the holy grail of fish keeping the vast majority of fish you see in a pet shop need soft, acidic water so you'll have loads of choice. I can think of a few with purple in them, they are all shoaling fish so they'd need to be kept in a group of 6 or more. Pleco-wise if you want one that doesn't get too big then a bristlenose plec or bulldog plec would be best. Don't go for anything called sailfin or common, they get MASSIVE.

If you have a google for fish caresheets then you should be able to find fish suitable for your tank, or I can suggest some Make sure you check a few different sites, they can vary quite a bit so it's best to take an average.

[auntypurple]

Ah right I am with you now, didn't know the bacteria would have died off. Took me about 18 hours after the tank was emptied to get it filled and the water flowing, also didn't know I needed to add ammonia, was told not too as it was second hand and the filter was mature. Should I start adding some now? If so what do you suggest and how much and how often?

My uncle has a tank running, he keeps gold fish in it, my mum is seeing him on Saturday, if that's any good?

If I remember correctly the pH went upto 7.8, but will have to check that. I have only tested the water in my tank, should I test the tap water too?

Should I be doing any water changes while in the fishless cycle? The link you gave me didn't mention it, but I have read some that say to change between 10% and 20%.

I was only told to add the stress coat on day 1, do you think I should be adding more of that?

I think I will get my head around this water stuff before I start looking up fish care sheets, but feel free to suggest some, I can look at pics without getting confused.

Thanks for all your help, makes much more sense than reading everyone's diffrent advice on the internet. :)

[EauRouge]

Yes, those filter bacteria are delicate little souls but if you look after them then the rest is pretty easy. Filter media from a goldfish tank will be fine, provided they are healthy. If you're not sure then best to avoid. If you do get a bit of sponge or bioballs then you'll need to transfer them over as quickly as possible and keep them wet in a jar of water from the tank.

It's a good idea to test tap water pH but you need to leave it to stand for 24 hours as some water companies put in stuff that changes the pH temporarily. If you test it straight out of the tap then you may not get an accurate reading.

You do need to add ammonia to kick-start the cycle, this mimics fish waste. You can either use household ammonia which you can get in Boots and I think Homebase. Add enough to get the level up to 4ppm (there are various calculators available online).

OR you can use the good old handful-of-fish-food-in-a-stocking method which is harder to control but still works. Just chuck a handful of fish food in an old, clean stocking and hang it in the tank. As the food breaks down it will release ammonia. You might need to change it a couple of times during the cycle.

You don't need to do a water change during the cycle but you'll need to do one at the end once the ammonia and nitrIte have reached zero. The nitrAte level will probably be pretty high by then and the only way to reduce that is with a water change. Make sure you check the nitrAte level of your tap water too because that can be quite high in some areas.

[auntypurple]

Thanks for all your help. Just typed out a long reply, and hit the wrong button grr.

Short of it was, do you know what the ideal leavels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate should be in a fully cycled tank, when it's all done. Just so I know what I am aiming for.

I am using the fish food method atm, so will see how that goes for now.

Got a feeling I will be spending an awful lot of time asking questions to get it right. :)

[EauRouge]

Yes, the ideal levels are-

Ammonia- zero (this should always be zero in a cycled tank)
NitrIte- same as ammonia
NitrAte- less than 40ppm, but the lower the better. A zero reading is worrying though. You'll need to test your tap water too as it can be quite high in nitrAte, I think the legal limit is about 100ppm.

Don't worry about questions, better to get it right and not have a load of dead fish on your hands!

[auntypurple]

Thats great thank you, that's what my little book with the tests said, but when I was reading on the internet people kept saying the nitrate should be zero, and I couldn't get my head round it.

I will run all the tests on the tap water too, just so I know what I am getting from that.

[auntypurple]

Possibly buggered up this tank and need to start again. I think it's starting to smell a bit. The water has been in there 6 days, but I followed the advice of the man I brought it from, I didn't wash the substrate, which is like a very fine black gravel, or the filter, he did the filter the day I brought it, he did this to show me how it was done.

I am thinking I need to empty the tank, bin the substrate and buy new substrate and clean the tank and filter.

Should I do this, or just leave well alone and see if it sorts itself out? There seams to be like a brownish hair type stuff floating about, this was on the end of the filter input pipe ( the bit that sucks up the water to go into the filter), I knocked it off to see what it was. I did wash the filter pipes before setting up the tank, so I know it wasn't on there before.

Thought I would ask now, rather than leave it 6 weeks then have to emapty it.

[EauRouge]

Have you got fish in there? What does it smell like? Have you taken any water readings since the last lot?

[auntypurple]

No not got any fish in there. I took some reading 2 days ago, ammonia was still 0.25, zero nitrite and the nitrate was up to 20. When I viewed the tank it did have fish in, it had 3 small cat fish in, the others had already be moved into other tanks or sold. Man was selling a lot as is having an extension built, said he was going to buy new again when it was all finished. He was a discus fish breader, and had a huge marine tank with marine fish in.

Smells like a tank that has not been cleaned for months, like dirty water.

I have just spoken to my dad, and have decided to empty the tank and get the gravel out, clean everything and start again. Then at least I know what I am dealing with, and that there is nothing lurking in the gravel. Dad thinks maybe the tank and gravel has been sat and not running for a long time, and it was just filled up for show, when we went to look.

Have been calling around fish places this morning to find out how much gravel I need for a non planted tank, and have got 3 diffrent answers. So just trying to work that out, then I am off out to buy some, one place said 9lbs is enough, but that dosen't sound like much to me.

Should imagen I need to get new filter media and stuff too?

Then I will follow all the advice you have given me, and hopefully in 6-8 weeks I will have a lovely running tank I can put some fish in. Sorry for the long reply, just wanted to make sure I don't leave anything out. Am determind to get this right.

[EauRouge]

Yeah, it might be worth replacing the gravel and filter media then. At least there are no fish in there, that makes things a lot less complicated!

If you are planning on having real plants then it's best to get a planting substrate (like tetraplant or laterite) and lay that down under the gravel. PLaysand is a good cheap alternative to gravel, it's better for bottom feeders too because it's much softer. Might be hard to get this time of year though. Make sure it;s the non-toxic kind!

[auntypurple]

Hiya,

Just got home, been a long day. I have got 3 bags of small gravel from pets at home, 8kg in each bag. They said it will be more than enough, but am not sure. I can always go back for more tho.

Also went into homebase and saw they had ammonia, couldn't see any ingrediants on the bottle, but it didn't go frothy when I shook it, and says 9.5% ammonia, so I have brought that and will check the ingrediants on the website it gives before using it.

Do you have any tips on getting the right amount into my tank? Not sure if a turkey baster or medice spoon will work? Don't want to get that every where it honks. Think the online calculator said 7. something ml, but will check that when I need it.

Also got myself a note book, so I can write down everything I do, and all my test results, and hopefully can catch myself if I am going wrong.

Am going to get started with the change over and scrubbing in the morning, am actully looking forward to putting it right. I am going to take a step back at every step, and double check everything, and just take my time this time.

Thanks again for all your input, has really helped to come back and read it all again and again.

[EauRouge]

Those little medicine syringes you get from chemists are the best thing for measuring. It's hard to get it exactly dead-on but as long as the result is around 3ppm then that should be OK. If the ammonia level goes too high then it inhibits the bacteria from growing but it would have to be a fair bit higher than 3ppm. Just don't slip and tip half the bottle in

[auntypurple]

Haha that would be just my luck. Have just worked out I need about 5ml, so a medice syringe should just about do it.

I have just writen myself a step by step guide from your link, so I can take a peek before adding anything.

I will be back if it all goes horribly wrong, and I can't work out why. I shall most deffintly come back before adding any fish, to see if you think it's all ready, and what fish to start with

[auntypurple]

Ohh I have another question already. Once I have the tank clean and set back up, I will fill it with water. I will put my 2 and half cups of stress coat in.

Should I start adding the ammonia the same day it is filled up again, or wait a day or two?

[EauRouge]

You can start adding the ammonia straight away, the dechlorinator stuff works fairly instantly. When you are doing water changes though you should add the stress coat to the water before adding it to the tank.

[auntypurple]

Thanks for that. Think that is all I need to know to get this cycle going again.

I have just brought some buckets today with ltrs maked on them, so I can just keep them for the fish water changes, don't want anything nasty getting in the tank. I did read that to add the stress coat to the water before adding the water to the tank, and to try and get the water to the same temp as what is in the tank before adding it too, going to have to get another thermoter and play around with the hot and cold taps to see what works.

All seams so easy now that I have actully written it down, was driving me round the bend before, was getting told too many diffrent things from diffrent people, including the lfs which should have been helping, but just seamed to want me to add fish at anything from 3 days to 10 days.

[SalandersBro]

help needed! DD's goldfish are developing red gill. One has died, the other blothcy in red. HAve googled this to find it's amonia poisoning. Have changed 50% water and the carbon filter. And put in bacterial stuff. Is thereaanything else to 'cure. the remaining goldfish?

[EauRouge]

How big is the tank? What filter do you have, how often do you clean it and how do you clean it?

[SalandersBro]

It's a Fluval tank with the filter system at the back, with a sort of restricted access top. 23 lites. It;s about two months old and we have changed the water twice so far. And rinsed the bio stones as directed. The amonia prob. seems to be the prob. and we will check in at the fish shop tomorrow. But is there a sort of cure for the poisoning, or do we just keep changing water? Thank you.

[SalandersBro]

we hoover the gravel as best we can, but the whole at the top doesn't allow full access to all of the bottom of the tank.

[SalandersBro]

or rather then hole at the top. Sorry.

[EauRouge]

Crimeny ,. Right, you might want to sit down. 23 litres is way too small for goldfish, they get massive and poo for Britain so they need a huge tank. More info here. Also you should be changing the water once a week at least with a tank that small. What did you rinse the bio-stones in?

Ammonia poisoning is fixed by getting rid of the ammonia You also need to watch the nitrIte level as this is dangerous to fish too. If you don't have a test kit already then I would get one. There are lots of secondary infections that can happen due to ammonia poisoning and the treatment depends on what is wrong with the fish.