The defence of womens rights is not terrorism

[stillamum22]

Great piece of work by Fair Cop and Womens Rights Network authored by Sarah Phillimore. The sight of women like Marion Millar and so many others being arrested, and threatened for stating their concerns is scary and chilling, so this is really useful. Straightforward template for writing to your MP to raise the issue - they'll even send it for you!
I'll be popping something into the inbox of my local MS and Police Commissioner as well to draw their attention to this - keep them on their toes

www.womensrights.network/truth-is-not-terrorism?fbclid=IwAR2VZhmc7L-39I5xGfb3t_41KNTShAM_RFxzWrEkAe4NcwWhn-dX0HCl24Q

[Ofcourseshecan]

thats the issue with feminism these days....theres no agreement on what its about and its meaning will differ depending on who you speak with. I would consider myself a feminist.

And yet you are the only person here disagreeing with the statement that feminism is about defending women's rights, Kimilybob. Why do you call yourself a feminist? You haven't expressed any concern for women or support for their rights.

I could call myself an Olympic gold medallist, or a man. That wouldn't make me one.

[Ofcourseshecan]

@Kimilybob

Its strange that many have much to say about equality and diversity but on further examination really only play the game of division and exclusivity. You cant claim to want equality and to diversify AND to remain single sex only.
Its a logical contradiction and imo one of the big pitfalls of modern feminism.

You cant claim to want equality and to diversify AND to remain single sex only

You've thrown in a straw man there, Kimilybob. Defending women's rights is the whole point of feminism. That includes our single-sex rights. Feminism promotes diversity in that it is for women of all ages, races, abilities etc. But it is only for women. We have never claimed to want to diversify into including men.

Feminists (like anyone else) may also support a wide range of other causes, eg the environment. Those may be good causes, but they are not feminism.

[Spero]

Thanks for posting - I hadn't seen this thread before, looks like an interesting article from James Lindsay.

to the poster who comments that this should just be about letting transgender people get on with their lives, I hope you will listen to my conversation with Andrew Doyle and reflect. There is something very wrong about a situation where I cannot talk about the importance of sex as opposed to 'gender identity' without being flagged up as a risk to the 'health and safety' of an entire University.

[Bosky]

Update from @spero :

Lawyer and author Sarah Phillimore on examining the conflation of political speech with violence
GB News 28 Aug

[OperationDessertStorm]

The reason we have so many DV centres and rape crisis centres for women is simply because they make up the majority of service users! Yes we could have some empty spaces set aside for men JUST INCASE they need them but someones got to pay for that.

If men are fed up of paying for a service they get no benefit from, the sensible answer is to help stop dv and rape.

[LittleWhingingWoman]

You see I find this bizarre. That someone cannot understand why a woman or girl who has been raped by a man, might not want to be around men. I don't even know what to say. If a person cannot get this basic point there's no point discussing anything else.

[LittleWhingingWoman]

@Kimilybob

I actually agree with much of what women say is wrong about recent trans issues. However i dont see it as a factor that has ever affected our rights, so that notion is just wrong. No rights have been affected.

Do you understand the issues at stake?

[Metacat]

@kimilybob Its strange that many have much to say about equality and diversity but on further examination really only play the game of division and exclusivity. You cant claim to want equality and to diversify AND to remain single sex only. Its a logical contradiction and imo one of the big pitfalls of modern feminism.

I think this cartoon sums up the issues with the above quite nicely. Would you deny the child on the right his additional boxes on the basis that it's divisive and exclusive? Or would you acknowledge that there are fundamental differences between humans that society has adjusted to accommodate across the centuries?

Medical schools select by ability, so doctors can practise safely. Certain sports are organised by weight class so participants can fight safely. Rollercoasters have height restrictions so children can ride safely. And the law provides for sex segregation in certain contexts so females - significantly smaller and weaker than males, and proportionately massively more likely to be subject to assault by males - can participate in public life and sports fully and safely.

interactioninstitute.org/illustrating-equality-vs-equity/

[sanluca]

@Kimilybob

I think its acceptable to defund centres that arent inclusive yes. Who these centres include in their programs neednt mean service users ever have to mix.

So will you say the same to facilities that prioritise disabled people, older people, young people, people of colour? You have to include everyone or lose funding?

So Stonewall should lose their funding then because they focus only on LGBT. Trans orgs like Mermaids will lose funding because their services are only aimed at transgender children.
BLM, no, in your opinion all lives matter.....

[sanluca]

@Kimilybob

Also, basic human rights dont include respect. You are not entitled to respect it is earned.
Nor is your safety a right. Safety is a responsibility

I think people need to think about whether they mean rights, or needs, in discussions and understand the difference.

In the universal declaration of human rights:

Article 1: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

So how are governmemts going to ensure these rights are upheld for female people when you force them to chose between using mixed sex facilities or excluding them from those facilities? How are you going to protect female people from the violence done by male people?

[SamphiretheStickerist]

@Kimilybob

I think its acceptable to defund centres that arent inclusive yes. Who these centres include in their programs neednt mean service users ever have to mix.

Oh! So you think you can magic up additional rooms, additional sleeping spaces, additional counsellors, additional funding, additional neccessarily secretive PR and marketing, additional contacts with entirely different health services and referring partners, and duplicate a service that is worked on a shoestring. All whilst maintaining the trust of the client group?

Well PM me and I will give you my address. You can come and do that for us at the centre I work at. because those of us who have worked herer for decades can't see how it can be done without crippling us financially and putting us out of business and losing us our core client base.

TLDR? Don't be so fucking insulting. That's the most facile shite I have seen typed here for ages - and that's saying something!

[butnobodytoldme]

The defence of women's rights is not terrorism, you say?
I think you will find it is.

Without strict control, and without being kept in fear of severe punishments, women's rights extremists may get hold of ribbons!

[Kimilybob]

I think its acceptable to defund centres that arent inclusive yes. Who these centres include in their programs neednt mean service users ever have to mix.

[SamphiretheStickerist]

@Kimilybob

Its strange that many have much to say about equality and diversity but on further examination really only play the game of division and exclusivity. You cant claim to want equality and to diversify AND to remain single sex only.
Its a logical contradiction and imo one of the big pitfalls of modern feminism.

Was this in answer to my question - the one in my long post explaining how refuges and crisis centres are being defunded?

You think THIS is an adequate response? We should shut up and accept men because summink summink ?

Or have you simply ignored that post, because its truth is too inconvenient?

[SamphiretheStickerist]

So safeguarding is a nonsense then, @Kimilybob?

And, as has been said, you are mistaking a feminist focus on rights for women for the exclusion of all other rights. I will fight for the rights of women, I will support anyone else in their fight for their rights UNLESS those rights come at a cost to women.

You seem to think that 'exclusion' is a dirty word. But I bet you exclude many things from your life on a daily basis, unthinking, uncaring. Things that garner repsect, things that ssure your safety... dressing apporpriately for the occasion, looking left and right when crossing the road.

Your understanding of respect is odd. Everyone starts with the repspect that everyone accords every other person. It is to be lost through your own actions, or it can be gained, bolstered by them. But everyone begins with the basic respect of their peers etc. Or do you meet new people and according them the status of dog shit on your shoes?

And yes, feminism is not a catch all, we are not Borg. We are independently minded women arguing for what we believe to be right. I don't want a Borg or Communist, single comunity with one goal life. I am happier with infinite variety - as society that respects the rights and boundaries of each of its members and does not set out to take away from the dignity and safety of anyone.

[Kimilybob]

Also, basic human rights dont include respect. You are not entitled to respect it is earned.
Nor is your safety a right. Safety is a responsibility

I think people need to think about whether they mean rights, or needs, in discussions and understand the difference.

[Witheringtong]

The problem is you have twisted 'focusing on the rights women need' as 'only wanting rights for women'.

Women have had to campaign for specific services that are only needed by women because of our biology. Women had to do that, because it doesn't occur to men that those needs exist.

[Kimilybob]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

If you only want rights for women that is called exclusivity.

I don't. I'm merely clarifying what feminism is, as the self proclaimed feminist didn't seem that sure.

I think thats the issue with feminism these days....theres no agreement on what its about and its meaning will differ depending on who you speak with.

I would consider myself a feminist...although i would distance myself from many of those who would consider themselves modern feminists.
Many go too far and are far too self absorbed to see the detriment it will end up causing the collective community. Most women (and men) are reasonable however and woukd like to progress as 1 group.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

If you only want rights for women that is called exclusivity.

I don't. I'm merely clarifying what feminism is, as the self proclaimed feminist didn't seem that sure.

[Kimilybob]

O deffo agree with many view ob tra's they dont represent trans people. They are what modern society has produced. Its so sad to aee this.

[Kimilybob]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I am a feminist and everything I do is about championing equality and fairness.

Yes, feminism is the rights movement for women and girls. Not anyone else.

This is what i mean by contradiction

If you only want rights for women that is called exclusivity.

Women and men have equal rights in law so to want to go beyond that isnt fighting for equality.

[Kimilybob]

Its strange that many have much to say about equality and diversity but on further examination really only play the game of division and exclusivity. You cant claim to want equality and to diversify AND to remain single sex only.
Its a logical contradiction and imo one of the big pitfalls of modern feminism.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

You don't speak for all women either.

Didn't once say I did. I am however speaking up for the political and legal rights of women as a sex class. Do some more reading about why it's important.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

I am a feminist and everything I do is about championing equality and fairness.

Yes, feminism is the rights movement for women and girls. Not anyone else.

[SamphiretheStickerist]

Sorry @wingscrow I just want to discuss your post in more detail. Partly because, like many others posting here I felt much the same way until just a few years ago!

I am a feminist and everything I do is about championing equality and fairness.

Do you not see any conflict in male bodied people accessing all sorts of spaces, activities that are single sex, female?

Like prisons
Like refuges
Like crisis therapy sessions
Like sports
Like jobs
Like enclosed places of any kind - hospital wards, public washrooms, etc etc

It isn't transwomen that are the threat to women. It is males. ALL males are a possoble threat. That is why we have single sex spaces, why sex is a protected characteristic.

Nobody thinks all men are dangerous, violent, rapists. But safeguarding allows us to restrict their access to some spaces because of the danger that some of them will pose.

And all transwomen are male!

Or do you simply espouse the theory that everyone has the same rights to access absolutely everything and that's it - that right of access is itself fair, equitable and the Devil take the hindmost?