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Feminism: sex and gender

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Feminism: sex and gender

Feminism: chat

Make-up free Miss Great Britain

77 replies

FusionChefGeoff · 11/09/2021 08:02

What a great woman!!

Ms Great Britain contestant to compete make-up free www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-58346534

I too have finally given up on makeup - was wearing less and less but completely stopped now even for work. It helps that I'm genetically lucky to have good skin plus I do eat very well and drink gallons of water.

I hope it's giving a body positive message to my DD and the other girls in my life but I'd love to see more high profile women taking the same stance.

OP posts:

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Dyrne · 14/09/2021 07:29

@NiceGerbil do you know her or something?

I haven’t said she’s showing off. I’m not attacking her, I’m sure she’s a perfectly lovely person and it’s admirable that she’s using her platform to discuss bullying and self acceptance.

However, this is the feminism section and I’m just saying it’s sad when “women goes without makeup” is any kind of headline at all; and so I don’t necessarily find her particularly “inspirational”.

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Babdoc · 14/09/2021 10:21

I’m with Dyrne*. Beauty contests are sexist demeaning shit, with or without makeup. They belong in the 1950s, and removing make up in no way rehabilitates them as something for modern feminist women to aspire to.

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KimikosNightmare · 14/09/2021 11:32

The message from so many sources is that if you're a girl/ woman being pretty/ beautiful IS massively important

And how on earth is an extremely pretty young woman, one who is outstandingly pretty , entering a beauty contest making any impact on that?

The OP thinks this is giving a "body positivity message" - it absolutely isn't. All it's doing, if anything, is saying "oh, look at me, I'm so naturally, conventionally pretty I don't even need make-up to compete in this (cattle parade)

Make no mistake a beauty contest is no different from the livestock competitions at any agricultural show. The prize winning heifers and ewes are being judged on appearance- not their ability to speak 4 languages and campaign for world peace

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NiceGerbil · 14/09/2021 16:02

No of course I find don't know her!

Why do you assume her aim is to show off about her looks and (presumably) feel superior/ make some women feel is inferior is her aim given her history?

Can you tell me how you came to that conclusion?

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TractorAndHeadphones · 14/09/2021 16:48

@Dyrne

I’m pleased that this woman has overcome her bullying and is spreading a message of self acceptance. But it rubs me the wrong way that she’s entering a beauty pagent, as if to say “I’m still beautiful even without make up”. And I don’t like that “not wearing makeup” is being lauded as some sort of outrageously brave step.

I don’t like messages that are essentially “You can be/do [Non conforming thing] and be beautiful”

Why does “being beautiful” have to be the goal?

I’m short, fat and never wear makeup. I am not “beautiful” by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t care - I still have worth.

Exactly!
Thé make-up thing is really dependent on your skin. A lot of people get away with wearing no make-up but they’re already beautiful to begin with. Like this woman. So she’s achieved nothing. She may have been bullied in her youth but that’s the past.

A beauty pageant is by definition for good looking people. If everyone in there was ‘ordinary’ it would no longer be a beauty pageant. So the message is contradictory.

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NiceGerbil · 14/09/2021 17:41

The reaction to her history is totally incomprehensible.

The bullying was terrible. I cannot even begin to agree with anyone who reads what she says and has this reaction.

There seems to be a subtext of well she's good looking so all of that means nothing? If she told that story and it was about bullying in general would she get more empathy? Do his looks cancel out any difficulties a woman might have, or have overcome?

The assumptions she's a vain attention seeker showing off are incomprehensible to me as well.

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deydododatdodontdeydo · 14/09/2021 19:16

If she told her story and didn't enter a beauty competition then yes. I agree with those saying they aren't acceptable at all.

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NiceGerbil · 14/09/2021 20:12

No one would publish the story if she wasn't doing that.

Jeez. Woman with history of bullying and issues with looks because of it does something that must be vanishingly rare.

Omg she's good looking I don't approve she's just showing off.

Nope that's a terrible take. Imo.

Can see many agree though and the many posts asserting a motivation of vanity/ showing of etc is just weird.

The idea that because she's good looking her post issues are totally irrelevant is a shitty comment.

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TractorAndHeadphones · 14/09/2021 20:41

Exactly.
Why enter a contest judged by looks when you ... don't want to be judged by your looks?
A purely logical contradiction

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LobsterNapkin · 14/09/2021 21:20

@Keroppi

She's gorgeous! She looks like Marina and the Diamonds.

I go makeup free 80% of the time, but I do find it annoying how I have internalised that I am presenting "my best self" by wearing makeup to events, interviews etc. However, I also just like how much more awake I look with eyebrow pencil and some smudgey eyeliner.

I'm not informed enough on beauty pageants and how they are ran these days to comment on that part. They probably raise money for charities or something now?

I think that a lot of the sense of not looking right without make-up, rather than really being about women not being good enough, has to do with the way we become accustomed to things looking a certain way.

If you are just going about doing low-key errands, you wear casual clothes and no or minimal make up and jewelry, it looks all at the same level of formality. But as soon as you put on dressy clothes or more formal things, if you don't have the right kind of jewelry or no make up, it looks unbalanced. As if you forgot to finish getting dressed. In some cases the clothes are more dominant or noticeable too so a bare face and a ponytail just fades into the background and all you see are the clothes.

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ColorMagicBarbie · 15/09/2021 23:38

It would be much braver IMO if a chubby were to enter.

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ColorMagicBarbie · 15/09/2021 23:40

Chubby person that should've read

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OrangeJuiceAndNoodles · 16/09/2021 00:14

I was a finalist for Miss England about ten years ago (don't judge me. I'd just left school and the competition led to modelling and therefore, easy money while I was studying at Uni) .

Think things must've moved on a lot because I refused to wear fake tan or a padded bra and it was made clear to me that I wasn't what the judges were looking for. There's no way they would've celebrated the no make up look.

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TractorAndHeadphones · 16/09/2021 14:13

@ColorMagicBarbie

It would be much braver IMO if a chubby were to enter.

It would be much more forward as well if they removed the stupid height requirement. If it was really meant to celebrate beauty - are they saying that short people are ugly?

**yes im short

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TractorAndHeadphones · 16/09/2021 14:22

@LobsterNapkin in addition makeup (like a suit, tie and nicely kept beard for men) signifies. It's not about whether the makeup makes them look beautiful, but polished. I liken it to men maintaining beards.

Beautiful people are treated better, true but in professional settings the emphasis is on polish rather than good looks. In the same way that ill-fitting clothes look bad.

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Kittenlittlen · 17/09/2021 03:12

Where’s the pageant where men stand on a stage and we judge their bodies and desirability to women?

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Kittenlittlen · 17/09/2021 03:18

‘
It would be much more forward as well if they removed the stupid height requirement. If it was really meant to celebrate beauty - are they saying that short people are ugly?’

No it would be much more forward if society stopped judging women’s bodies and appearance
In ways that men never are
Sure people can notice attractive people but having women compete on looks , just wow

And all those who say oh but they talk about charity work and they have to be more than pretty , then explain why there are rarely if ever , older women , disabled women. Overweight women , short women . The women on those stages do not reflect diverse sample of women in the world .

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NiceGerbil · 17/09/2021 03:25

@Kittenlittlen

Where’s the pageant where men stand on a stage and we judge their bodies and desirability to women?

Ones for gay men.

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NiceGerbil · 17/09/2021 03:30

@OrangeJuiceAndNoodles

I was a finalist for Miss England about ten years ago (don't judge me. I'd just left school and the competition led to modelling and therefore, easy money while I was studying at Uni) .

Think things must've moved on a lot because I refused to wear fake tan or a padded bra and it was made clear to me that I wasn't what the judges were looking for. There's no way they would've celebrated the no make up look.

That's really interesting thank you.

This thread has been very strange all the way through tbh!

Good for you for not folding to the demand for conformity. To an artificial standard based on the 'look' dominating at the time.

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NiceGerbil · 17/09/2021 03:38

@Kittenlittlen

‘
It would be much more forward as well if they removed the stupid height requirement. If it was really meant to celebrate beauty - are they saying that short people are ugly?’

No it would be much more forward if society stopped judging women’s bodies and appearance
In ways that men never are
Sure people can notice attractive people but having women compete on looks , just wow

And all those who say oh but they talk about charity work and they have to be more than pretty , then explain why there are rarely if ever , older women , disabled women. Overweight women , short women . The women on those stages do not reflect diverse sample of women in the world .

These type of events are a symptom not a cause.

Stop them all and women/ girls will still be primarily assessed on looks/ body.

The female beauty standard/ women and girls as decoration applies all over the place. You can't get away from it.

Adverts magazines films TV progs etc.

These competitions are a tiny part that in the UK are not given attention any more in the mainstream.

Meanwhile there's the massive sexism in most of the entertainment from the USA and also that we produce. Every year the telegraph has its girls jumping exam results page.

Oh just thought. Porn. Instagram. All that stuff.

A massive problem with the objectification of women and older girls.

So well there's a huge issue really.

I'm short as well btw and I had no idea there was a height thing until I read your post! I can't say that it's impacted my life tbh. Way bigger issues IMO!

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Kittenlittlen · 17/09/2021 06:39

@NiceGerbil
Absolutely agree they are yet another symptom ….. we need to treat the symptoms in order to say hey this is not acceptable by stopping this crap !
Sure women and girls will still be getting assessed on looks but it’s one less message that this is acceptable to do being sent by the media
Same with porn and all the other stuff like you mention

And yes it’s interesting what you say about if they had those men on stage to be judged it would be for gay men
Either way, it seems that it’s always about catering to men

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Kittenlittlen · 17/09/2021 06:41

And I disagree that it’s not that big of an issue , my daughters and many women’s lives are affected daily by the attitudes of objectification that seem to be getting increasingly worse

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Kittenlittlen · 17/09/2021 06:42

Oh sorry I may have misread if you were saying being short hasn’t impacted your life , I’m short too and can agree with that

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TractorAndHeadphones · 17/09/2021 12:12

@Kittenlittlen

‘
It would be much more forward as well if they removed the stupid height requirement. If it was really meant to celebrate beauty - are they saying that short people are ugly?’

No it would be much more forward if society stopped judging women’s bodies and appearance
In ways that men never are
Sure people can notice attractive people but having women compete on looks , just wow

And all those who say oh but they talk about charity work and they have to be more than pretty , then explain why there are rarely if ever , older women , disabled women. Overweight women , short women . The women on those stages do not reflect diverse sample of women in the world .

I agree.

A beauty pageant by definition has certain criteria that define beauty. That is why it is a beauty contest. Saying that 'I want to add no makeup to this beauty criteria' doesn't change the fact that it's not inclusive. In fact it would just exclude a different set of people (those who don't look 'beautiful' without makeup).

On the flipside if the pageant was 'diverse' - then what's the point of having it in the first place? It still requires someone to decide person A is beautiful enough to be there, person B is not.

Therefore the only way is to remove them. Anyone who participates or supports it is propagating sexism no matter what past sob story they have to justify their participation, whether they go no makeup, are wheelchair bound or whatever. The whole notion of judging is ridiculous.

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KimikosNightmare · 17/09/2021 13:00

Omg she's good looking I don't approve she's just showing of

My objection is towards the OP. The OP's lauding of this is beyond bizarre.

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