5:2 Diet Thread! 13! Now, the baker's dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

[CambridgeChris]

I have read your talk notes and the rude comments I have received also breaches your guideline of 'courtesy'

[Breadandwine]

Hi folks!

Well done, GE, your holiday timing was spot on!

Welcome to all the new posters - and to all those not losing weight (not too many, I hope), don't forget you're still gaining the health benefits from this WOL.

Strange couple of days for me - best laid plans, and all that!

I began my normal fast yesterday, but then friends of mine decided to take advantage of this glorious weather and invited me to accompany them on a walk over the Quantocks. Funnily enough, we'd only been going about three hours when we came across a pub - just happened to be about lunchtime!

I was still going to carry on fasting - right up until I realised that, not only was I going to have to forgo a pub lunch - but also a pint of beer. At this stage I made a unilateral decision to move my fast day to today. [wise]

For lunch I had a large plate of chips, beans and mushrooms in the pub - plus the pint, and very nice it was too! Came home and got stuck into some spicy almond biscuits left over from Xmas. 6 or 7 of these later, I wrapped up the packet and threw it on top of the kitchen cupboard! [phew]

Later, for dinner, I had the bubble and squeak leftover from yesterday's roast dinner, plus broccoli, a stuffed mushroom and a serving of veg curry.

In the evening I made a vegan parkin (wheat free) - so I had a couple of slices to taste that.

Today, Tuesday, is normally a feed day, so I had breakfast - and then realised that, since I was going away with my son that night, I could fast today and do my first ever overnight fast. And, since my breakfast was only around 200 cals, I'd be well under the 600 cal mark.

In the car with my son, he was telling me how he knew I was fasting, but he really wanted to take me out for a curry. He'd found this terrific Indian restaurant, and he would like to treat me. Well, living 3 hours apart, as we do, these events weren't as common as I would like, so, out of a sense of filial duty, once again, I allowed pragmatism to rule, and we had the curry - plus the obligatory lager!

I'd brought the parkin with me - I'd made it for my son who has a slight problem with wheat - so we had a couple of slices of that on our return, with a mug of coffee.

So now I'm fasting again, and I won't eat until 6.30-7.00 tomorrow.

To sum up my fasting this week (remember, I'm only maintaining):
Sunday 7.00pm - Monday 1.00pm complete fast for 18 hours
Monday 9.00pm - Tuesday 7.00pm, 22 hours with only around 200 cals
Tuesday 9.00pm - Wednesday 7.00pm 22 hours complete fast, then

[CambridgeChris]

to aftereightsarenolongermine and ErikNorseman, there really was no need for your rude reply, i am not 'peddling products' merely hoping to add to the discussion. The product was never mentioned by name, and if I breached guidelines than so did you 'courtesy' I rest my case

[Iwearblack]

Wow what a lot of new posts!
Feel chuffed today - have been plateaued for 4 weeks despite keeping up 5:2 and generally feeling good about it all. Weighed today and woo 3 lbs off! I knew I felt slimmer just the scales didn't show it! So BMI now normal for the first time in 20 years...
New target now is to lose another 5 lbs so can get under 11 stone ...

[BumBiscuits]

That's brill iwear!

[LackaDAISYcal]

erm CC...you said you were a Cambridge consultant, new to the site and mentioned using meal replacement for our 500 calories on a fast day (iirc) and on another thread you asked a poster directly if they had considered Cambridge as a WOE. That, along with your name, suggests you might be here to drum up some business which is against the talk guidelines. If not, why not namechange and start posting in other areas of the site than Big/Slim?

And Erik and After8's replies, whilst a bit sharp, don't break talk guidelines as there is no insult, either directly or implied.

[LackaDAISYcal]

brilliant Iwearblak

[charliegreentea]

Hi everyone. I am really enjoying this WOE. I've tried lots of diets over the years and always got frustrated when the weight loss slowed. What I'm loving about this approach is that it is easy, sustainable and doesn't cost anything. In fact I'm saving money on my grocery bill by eating and drinking less twice a week! My normal eat days have been a little on the indulgent side, but I have started noticing changes in my appetite and things like coffee and alcohol are starting to taste quite toxic.

On fast days I start with a smoothie (frozen blueberries, trim milk and a scoop of protein powder), then fill up on fruit and herbal teas until the middle of the day when I eat a small tin of tuna and either some leek soup or coleslaw. Lots more tea or water with lemon, then a stir fry with vegies and 100g chicken. If there's any cals left I have frozen blueberries with a dollop of natural yoghurt, or sometimes I have a boiled egg at around 4pm if I'm starting to fade. I feel so great on fast days and am noticing that stodgy carbs such as bread and pasta make me feel really lethargic by comparison. Looking forward to doing my weekly weigh in on Friday. I have lost 6 pounds in one month and the old me might have been disappointed with these results, but I'm in for the long haul and hoping to keep losing small amounts until I get to a healthy BMI for the first time in many years...

[frenchfancy]

Well done Iwearblack. It feel great doesn't it.

[ErikNorseman]

You are most welcome to report my post if you think I breached the guidelines.

[ErikNorseman]

Well done iwearblack!

[Aftereightsarenolongermine]

cc report my post then.

iwear well done!

b&w yes I would have done the same as you in those circumstances.

charlie it's great when you find something you can do long term I've been doing this since beginning of August I usually give up any diet within 3-6 months but not this as its so easy. :o

[mamamoomin2]

Well....I am going to abandon/swap fast days. For the first time I have lost some enthusiasm for this WOE and really don't want to fast today. I hope this is a wise move and not a slippery slope to old ways (not yet forgotten) and failure.

I'm going to fast tomorrow instead and get my head back and feeling more positive. Hopefully. :(

[snoworneahva]

Thank you for the new thread greeneggs
iwearblack well done!!!
Holmes I fast and exercise 5 days a week, I suspect if any day is hard it's the day after a fast rather than the day of a fast. If you normally eat loads of carbs you could hit a wall - I try to limit my intake of carbs to keep my blood sugar at a steady level.

I have a low BMI - for someone who asked earlier why you would want to lose weight when you have a healthy BMI - I look overweight and chubby with a BMI over 22.5, so although I may be a healthy weight I don't like the way I look or the way my clothes feel. I know others who have a BMI of 22.5 and look great but I am not one of them.

I don't lose weight on 5:2 either - have been doing this since August last year. To lose the Christmas gains, I had to calorie restrict on feed days, which works ok for me because now I'm at my ideal weight again I can maintain long term on 5:2 without calorie restricting - if you have ever tried long term maintaining it's not easy to relax a bit and keep a lid on gains, this approach makes that challenge quite a bit easier.

[ErikNorseman]

Has anyone tried not eating at all on fast days? I'm struggling to stick to 500 cals because once I start eating I want to eat more. However I am not actually hungry by the time I eat (6ish) so I'm wondering whether I could just power through til morning?

[artemis17]

Morning fellow fasters..i bounded out of bed today and sipping my hot water i feel grrreat!!. I have lost 2lbs (of the 6 or so i wanted to lose), defiantely lost on my waist AND ive noticed my appetite on non fast days has reduced.

I mean i was a huge eater, more than my teenage son & partner at times, even with a fast metabolism it couldnt have been healthy. Love love love this WOE :)

[Breadandwine]

Erik, NatashaMousse does this - she's maintaining her weight by once a week going a full 36 hours without food. I'm still to try this - just to see when hunger finally does kick in. Hasn't so far with 24 hour fasts.

So I'd say go for it, but have something to hand in case you need it. My guess is you probably won't!

Good luck!

[ErikNorseman]

Thanks! I feel a bit trepidatious about it, which is silly. I'll be at home by 5.30 so if I need to eat then I can. I'm not going to put pressure on myself though.

[greenfig]

Hi all
I've just come back from hols with some, ahem, excess baggage! I saw the Horizon programme on the plane & skim read the book last night. I would like to give it a go for the health benefits as well as weight loss but find I get shaky when I restrict & then reach for the worst things. Am planning to fast tues & thursdays in the main, I have 4lbs hol weight but would like to lose 7lbs in total. V inspiring to read your posts

[PanpiperAtTheGatesOfYawn]

To those not losing weight - BMJ, oranges et al, I was fossicking on the web last night and apparently 2.5 day fasts can be effective at kick-starting the system. 2 normal fast days, then a half day fasting with a normal evening meal.

Also, apparently people often overestimate the amount the exercise and therefore get their TDEE wrong, so might be worth looking at that.

Finally.... it's seems like it's common to plateau on fast diets - after about 6 months the body adjusts. Actually, I suppose all diets reach plateaus, right? Anyway I guess the diet is so new people are still figuring stuff out.

[BetsyVanBell]

I seem to be naturally drifting back to being a no-breakfast type person. I'm musing on what this means as remember as a late teen I never ate breakfast and though I was slim I did have disordered eating bordering on an eating disorder. In my early twenties I had major digestive issues (possibly relating to odd eating habits earlier on) which led me to become way too thin and having to cut out wheat & dairy though being too poor to eat as healthily as my body needed. I'm pretty sure I had to eat breakfast then as I felt nauseas all the time and my body didn't seem to be retaining much of the food I ate.

By my mid twenties I had a bit more money and could eat more healthily, though still avoided wheat & dairy, but not as strictly as I had and I'm sure I was too busy to always eat regular meals and was using up lots of calories by walking miles each day and even going to gym (but also gaining a lot by drinking too many cocktails). I was slim-ish but curvaceous then. Late 20s brought my first pregnancy in which I suffered terribly and had to eat all the time just to get through the day - the long commute and long walks did not suit that pregnancy at all so then I ate 2 or 3 breakfasts including an awful lot of food stuffs I'd been avoiding for the last few years!.I have no idea how I ate during the first year of having a newborn - everything is hazy as I was utterly shellshocked by my new life.

By my 2nd pregnancy I actually lost a bit of weight effectively and only craved wonderful healthy foods and after a year of bfeeding plus good diet I was in lovely shape. It was at some point after that, possibly because I stopped running round after the kids all the time and because I was now used to eating regularly and often thanks to BFeeding and pregnancies that I forgot I could get hungry and had endlessly more snacks in the house, thanks to kids that had discovered biscuits were way more fun to eat than dried crackers... the weight piled on without me noticing (i didn't own a pair of scales) until I faced up to the fact I was now buying size 16 pairs of trousers and much larger and longer tops than I had ever had before, plus I was getting out of breath while moving around. Enough was enough, I started on a healthy eating regime, weighed myself, was shocked to realise I was heavier (and BMI obese) than I'd ever been even during pregnancies (and I was HUGE when pregnant).

Now, a year and a half later I am nearly 3 stone lighter and re-evaluating my eating once again. Breakfast only seems like a necessity after a fast day and although my eating is in a very very different place than it's ever been (bar that 2nd pregnancy!) part of me worries that I'm going to start eating like that disordered teen again. I know this is nonsensical as most of my eating is incredibly healthy in comparison to that girl of my distant past but there is a part of me that enjoys the 'control' element of fast days in the same way I did way back then.

Sorry about the length of post - I'm just trying to work it all out in my head and have no desire to vocalise all this in RL... it all sounds a bit self-indulgent - a luxury I'm only just re-discovering post kids.

[kirstys23]

I'm so excited about 5:2! I did my first fast day yesterday and expected to wake up this morning and want to eat everything in sight. But that wasn't the case, I just had a normal breakfast.

I'm hoping that doing this diet is going to make me realise that I don't need to constantly graze on food or have huge portions, my body can cope without them. Kind of looking forward to fast day tomorrow, will be interesting to see if it goes as smoothly as the first one.

Happy Fasting everyone :)

[swallowedAfly]

bvb just stay mindful. i think the fact that you are aware and that you are wary of those feelings means you're ok iyswim? but obviously stay mindful. there's a lot of fear around food, dieting, eating etc and if we've had problems with it in the past i think we can be very sensitive to that and more fearful? so for someone else who was enjoying the feeling of control on fast days they might think that was great and something to celebrated but for you it triggers other feelings and concerns due to past experience. sorry - waffle.

i am fasting today. i did go a bit munch yesterday on sugary stuff - probably because i went to the pub and had a couple of pints after an early finish at work and that tends to trigger the eating crap mode. not the end of the world and i actually didn't eat as much as i expected once i got that head on.

i have a day off today (time in lieu) so i'm going to try and keep busy around the house getting stuff done and have a nice leisurely yoga session and bath and i intend to make soup today with enough for tonight and enough to freeze for another fast day.

new pedometer said i did nearly 12000 steps yesterday and walked 8.8km - that was an average work day so i know work days i'm active enough and need to try and get non work days to hit 10000 too - is 10000 the aim? sorry - new to step counting but it makes sense to me as i'm a walker and it is functional! i need my excercise to be my lifestyle rather than add on for the most part as that's what makes sense to me and what is sustainable.

sorry - long post.

[swallowedAfly]

oh and rediscovery of self indulgence post kids sounds lovely!! have they moved out or just gotten older and more self sufficient bvb?