5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

[standsonshiftingsands]

The cyclistist - thanks very much for taking the time to reply. I think I might need to do 4:3 to get a decent weight loss, but maybe I need to take one day at a time for now.

[TheCyclistist]

Hi Laska , There's a stomach bug doing the rounds at the mo so you might have to and bear it.

But if you did manage to poison yourself with a dodgy Turkey Chilli try finely cutting up some fresh garlic cloves and eating them (most garlic tablets are not as effective as uncooked garlic) not overly easy to do especially if you're at work but garlic is VERY good at killing bacteria. If garlic on its on own is unbearable try putting it on a small chunk of cheese.

Good Luck

Hi Standsonshiftingsand , yeah one day at a time, and when things get tough today, remember it's just for today tomorrow food will taste GREAT.

[Laska42]

oh ,cyclistist please ..the very thought of garlic....... I cant even face thethought of the Franks either . I must be ill..

That's the odd thing literarygeek..nausea cramps ..but no d or v. otherwise id know what to do . ...perhaps it is a bug after all.. flat coke though.. yes I remember that now ..
Oh well enough about that..

Good reminder up thread about no one here being an expert or really knowing how its going to pan out re health benefits.. We ARE the research project

(Right now I don't think I'm going to live any longer ..WOE or not .. didn't go into work today and its sunny though .. I think ill walk down and get a newspaper a can of coke .. bleugh! hate the stuff.....and some fresh air.. )

[Laska42]

literarygeek Isle of Wight , but I spoke too soon! It must have been a break in the rain..or a quirk of my poor addled brain today.. Its now blowing a hooley and I just got soaked..

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

Good morning everyone. :)

No, none of us are experts, which is why pretty much any time I answer a question here, I preface it with "this is what I've found with my own personal experience" or something along those lines. I'm starting to think I should just put the disclaimer in bold in the OP.

And keep that comment in mind when I suggest looking at the Genesis diet if you are worried about your calcium intake (which might be one of the reasons for the osteoporosis concerns with this WOE.

Today is a fast day here, and I've done nothing but plan Thanksgiving food. :) I'll do pumpkin pie tomorrow but I think we won't have the proper dinner til the weekend. That way I can have turkey and cranberry sandwiches the next day!

[TalkinPeace2]

While swimming this morning I was thinking about the Rat study (that was in the New Scientist article) and realised that this is a Way of Eating that will be very hard to model in the lab.
Because.

You have a pet. One day you do not feed it.
It does not know that food will return as normal tomorrow.
So its stress hormones skyrocket, setting off all sorts of cascades as it gets hungrier.

A person decides not to eat one day.
By hour 23 they feel tired, hungry, but triumphant that they have done it.
And the endorphin cascades through their system will have secondary effects on metabolism etc etc.
And as an overweight person gets leaner, those feedback loops will be reinforced even further.

I assume there are cohort studies going on, among which are increasing numbers of intermittent fasters, but the data sets are going to take a long time to come out.

In the mean time, these threads are practically a scientific resource - as researchers could easily find each of us, we have no incentive to lie, and every incentive to search for answers.

[Breadandwine]

Agree with the whole 'expert' thing. We're all just feeling our way.

Can I remind posters of the Tips and Links thread where we collect any research that posters turn up.

There are several links up-thread that really need to be on there - if I have time later I'll trawl back and find them. But if you've just posted something relevant here, it's the work of a moment to cut and paste it onto the other thread.

Thanks!

I'm still losing weight - now over a stone and a half - and my BMI is 20.66. So I don't want to lose any more. I flirted with 6:1 but wasn't totally happy with it, so I've gone back to 5:2 - but trying to eat more on my eating days. I have thought perhaps I should include a 'feast' day once a week, where I really pig out.

Another thought - I'm so used to being sparing with olive oil, for instance, or eating less carbs, etc. I'll just have to try and get used to having bigger portions on my eating days and just forget about weight maintenance. It's a whole different mindset.

This may not seem relevant to you, if you've still got weight you want to shift - but, judging by the welter of encouraging stories on these threads, you'll be joining me sometime in the future, I'm sure!

Best wishes to all!

[ManOnBoard]

TP2 Even in DrM's programme, the mouse sction was only partly relevant and it was the results in humans that convinced me to try this WOE. The point that TheCyclistist made about the 20:1 rat:human life expectancy and also the 5:1 heart rate makes 24 hours more equivalent to a human week. There was always going to be research that gave a downside to this WOE but I have found not noticed one yet. My overall consumption has reduced but the nutritional values of what I eat has improved dramatically and I have far less fat and sugar in my diet, as I don't fancy it, which must be a huge benefit to my heart. My right knee used to occasionally buckle slightly and ache after a long walk but has not done since my weight reduced. On an earlier post you did say that this study was questionable in comparing it to middle aged women although I did notice that you did not discount the comparison between rats and men.

[TheCyclistist]

mob I'm sure it was merely a slip

[Bordercollielover]

Hmmm. Have we been deliberately set up to become a voluntary experiment? All it would take is a popular programme which suggests a possible method of losing weight..........and a ready made communication forum!!

[Poppy1234]

Day 3 in a row and it's my first day in the office this week and I'm finding it hard. I'm not sure if having lunch has made it more difficult than the past two days where However, I think I actually prefer it to the thought of having a day off and then having to return to fasting again the day after.

I'm very much looking forward to tomorrow. I was considering having an intermediate day tomorrow leaving me free for an enjoyable, calorie counting free weekend.

Has anyone tried 3 days fasting, 1 low calorie/intermediate day, 1 normal day and 1 feast day?

Maybe I shouldn't get carried away and just stick with 4:3 and 4 relatively normal days calorie wise until I reach target.

[squoosh]

Three fasting days in a row?

Wow, I definitely couldn't manage that. I do Mon, Wed, Fri.

[Breadandwine]

Isn't it great that you've got the freedom to choose, Poppy?

My SonIL raised an interesting question over the weekend:

Apart from weight watching, is there any need to limit the meal after a 24 hour fast to >500 or >600? Is there any evidence to say we should stick to those amounts? Not sure I've seen any, but I may have missed it.

[ManOnBoard]

Poppy When I first started this WOE I was full of enthusiasm and fasted 11 days in 27 but decided as I was in this for the long term that this was a little too drastic so stuck to 5:2. The benefits may take a little longer but you would have more flexibility and hopefully it will just become routine

B&W The idea that you do not have to stick to 500cals is something that we have discussed before and that the consensus is that you stay within the limits from waking in the morning to going to sleep at night. You do know that there is no evidence yet as full trials have not yet been completed however you seem intent on ruining the simplicity of this WOE

[Bordercollielover]

poppy1234, DrM initially did a 3 ( or was it 4 ?) day fast with nothing but a cuppa soup each day. I don't think he commented on the weight loss aspect but he did get good blood test results, However he had lost these good effects ina surprisingly short time, although I can't remember how long it was. I don't think he ever established the frequency of 3 day fasting that would be needed to maintain the improvements as he then shifted to 5:2 which he found easier.

[Madhouse2012]

I understood it that he initially fasted for 3 days with a 50cal cup soup daily, his blood levels were greatly reduced but did return sometime after. He looked at the adf but decided it was not for him, he wasn't really in it for weight loss more the health benefits, the 5:2 studies had shown very good health benefits, mainly reduced cholesterol, blood pressure, sugar levels and IGF-1 which would mean reduced risk of heart disease, stroke and some cancers.
At 45 I think i am probably much older than many of you on here? And I am doing the 5:2 mainly for the health benefits as my bp and cholesterol are slightly high, not needing meds though. Shifting half a stone is an added bonus hopefully for me. For those of you wanting to lose weight this diet should work, but depending on how much you will need to tweak your feasting days accordingly, personally I don't like the idea of purely fasting for more than a day at a time, not cutting out anything drastic, everything in moderation is my motto with 500 cals twice a week. Just be careful not to do anything too drastic that could cause you harm, stay safe on it everyone.

[Skinnyeye]

Hi all it's a really busy week for me so have been a bit quiet but still managing to keep up with the thread - just!!

I would like to make a couple of points
we are certainly not experts just sharing our own fasting experience and observations.

If there are trials going on it's only a matter of time before they find us - I managed it how hard can it be?

I agree with Madhouse nothing too drastic and stay safe! We have a set of guidelines to follow and strong anecdotal evidence that they work. We may be storing up health credits or debits for later life - we don't actually know. The only thing we can be certain of is that staying overweight will have a negative impact on our health both physical and emotional.

I for one am willing to take the risk.

[Laska42]

Nope Madhouse You're only a babe.. lots of post menopause Cougar women and geriatric old blokes 'distinguished' men here! (Laska ducks)

Don't bash me boys!! .. I'm ill! ...... Stomach still not getting any better so its got to be a bug I think..DH not well either and he didn't have the chilli . Tried bland potato and coke. looks like I'm going to have to brave the Peptobismol I think ( shudder! any Oldies here remember Kaolin ans Morphine?.. brings back nightmares from my childhood and PB is not much better ) and think ill have to do another day without food..

So its another early night for me more mint tea and book I think

[Laska42]

.. oh..and JIC you are wondering... I am talking about the fizzy drink Coke here .. not a line or two in the bathroom .. and yes its true .. in the old days they used to give kids a mixture of white clay and Morphine for tummy upsets.. (bleugh)

[Bordercollielover]

Kaolin and morph..........mmmmm!
I can see 60.

[Madhouse2012]

I'm only a Babe!! Ooh love it thank you kaolin and morphine is excellent for animals as well as people! Flat coke is very good for belly ache, hope you feel better soon.