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Original poster

Is ABRSM marking becoming v erratic?

74 replies

PantTwizzler · 29/03/2019 13:41

Dd has just got her grade 8 piano result back. She got 109. When she did a mock with her (very experienced) teacher, she got a high merit. She came out of the exam feeling like it had gone well and is extremely disappointed. We don’t have the mark sheet yet but raw marks only. Apparently she failed two of her pieces.

We need to see the mark sheet before deciding what to do but this is just to ask whether others have found ABRSM marking increasingly erratic. Incidentally, another of the teacher’s pupils got a very similar mark for grade 5, and teacher said he didn’t even deserve to pass. My elder daughter passed her ARSM Dip on the same day and she was frankly very lucky!

I’m wondering if examiners are sometimes harsher with piano because they are all pianists. When the same dd does bassoon exams she always gets a merit or distinction and I don’t feel she’s significantly better at bassoon.

Apologies for long waffle!

OP posts:
Boyskeepswinging · 30/03/2019 22:40

My DS scraped through his last second study grade when his teacher (and we) thought he'd get a strong merit or distinction. He made no errors during the exam and has distinction in grade 8 in his first study so he's clearly got some musical ability. His teacher conceded that the marking was all over the place that day and one pupil who he'd thought would scrape a pass came out with a strong merit. As it was his second study we just chalked it up to experience but it was annoying at the time. It has definitely made me question how consistent ABRSM marking is and your experience just serves to back that up further.

Original poster
PantTwizzler · 30/03/2019 23:11

Thanks Boys. Another anecdote -- apparently another pupil of the teacher's took her grade 8 recently and either failed or got a very low pass. She retook and got a high merit! I'm really shocked by this. It can be so demoralising to get an unexpectedly poor mark and it really matters if they are planning to pursue music at a higher level. It makes me wonder about switching to Trinity exams.

OP posts:
namechanger110 · 31/03/2019 17:28

We take much lower grades within Trinity so not much to add. Dense question I am sure but what is the " last second study grade " to which you refer? Thanks.

AnemoneAnenome · 31/03/2019 17:38

namechanger that just means the last exam he took in his second instrument.

AnemoneAnenome · 31/03/2019 19:33

We've just had a group of teachers switch from trinity to ABRSM because of a huge batch of unusually low marks.

billybagpuss · 31/03/2019 19:54

Congratulations to your DD on her result. It is a good solid pass and whilst she may be disappointed it still gives UCAS points and access to the diplomas.

I have found some erratic marking with both ABRSM and Trinity. It does happen, there is one particular AB examiner where my heart sinks if I see his name.

Grade 8 is a tough one though, the pieces are long and you have to keep the focus musically through to the end, which is hard especially in exam conditions. I have one student doing the Beethoven sonata in the B list and I do have my concerns as whilst learning the notes isn’t massively challenging keeping the interest and tone quality is tough.

Frogusha · 08/04/2019 15:10

My DD just got her grade 2 results and her teacher also predicted at least high merit if not distinction and she got a pass (115). Somehow she got low on scales (14) that she's normally amazing at. She got merit in all pieces but scales and sight-reading (just 1 below pass) made it less that a merit. I wonder if they adjust score to account for age. She's 7 and of course her fingers are less strong or long than someone's 2-3 years older (others DC who were taking the same grade in her school).

Boyskeepswinging · 08/04/2019 20:26

I wonder if they adjust score to account for age
Interesting idea ... I do know that technique is not accounted for in the marking. Yes, of course it has to sound musical but I have witnessed some shocking technique in kids who have G8 Distinction.

TooDamnSarky · 08/04/2019 20:38

My kids have taken 8 exams between them so far. With marks ranging from a scraped pass to a distinction. I've seen absolutely no correlation between how well they are playing in the run up to the exam and their marks. I've found the whole thing totally demoralising tbh. It just seems so random.

Boyskeepswinging · 18/04/2019 19:15

OK so just reporting back as DS got his result ... a Distinction this time even though he admitted making several mistakes. Yet when he played perfectly in his last grade he only just scraped a pass. This is his second study so scales, aural and sight reading are never an issue. Whilst obvs it's lovely to have a Distinction it's made me question even more why he scraped a pass last time yet played better? Sadly, I think Too may be onto something ...

NowWhereWasI · 18/04/2019 19:25

thought I'd share our previous experience as well. DD took a grade 2 abrsm piano exam several years ago. The feedback on her mark sheet was generally good with comments on minor things only. Overall looked like the mark sheet of a borderline merit/distinction according to her teacher. However, the actual marks given were very discrepant with the comments and she only scraped a pass. By the time we got the results it was too late to appeal.

Boyskeepswinging · 18/04/2019 19:42

Now that's exactly what happened to us in his last exam ... hmmm ...

Boyskeepswinging · 18/04/2019 19:43

Sorry, I meant the one previous to the recent one ..

cocopops · 24/04/2019 11:20

Ladies, has anyone given feedback to ABRSM on these results. I am thinking of doing so with my DD's grade 6 singing. Just got the mark sheet yesterday and marks are not reflective of the comments. Again, she is a grade 8 pianist and just got into JD so has musical ability yet her aural mark and sight singing were abysmal. We're not going to appeal as she doesn't want to re-sit but I do think we should be passing comments on. All of her peers who sat ABRSM exams the last diet at her school have had low marks.

Boyskeepswinging · 24/04/2019 17:49

We didn't bother complaining about our weird result, just moved onto the next grade. I guess if it had been something crucial like needing the grade to get into uni or something we would have appealed but that wasn't the case for us.

Alsoplayspiccolo · 25/04/2019 09:45

I have several friends who examine for ABRSM.
The selection and training process to become an examiner is very rigorous, as is on- going moderation.
However, I understand how exams are marked now is very different from, say, even 10 years ago. For example, candidates cannot score 99, 119 or 129, presumably because examiners have to make it clear that the candidate was not pass/merit/distinction standard, as opposed to giving the impression that "but for one mark..."
Also, examiners aren't allowed to give their own, personal comments, as such; comments are pretty much stock phrases, in accordance with the ABRSM's mission statement, as it were. For example, examiners can't write something like, "You could have made more of the dynamics", because the examiner has no way of knowing that THAT particular candidate was capable of making more of the dynamics, even if the music demands it.
I wonder if this is what leads to comments and marks being at odds with each other?
I also believe that examiners are discouraged from looking at the music, and are instead encouraged to judge the performance presented to them.
Finally, I have heard a rumour ( from a reliable source) that ABRSM examiners are encouraged to look more kindly on certain instruments that are it are becoming less popular.

Not sure if any of you have watched the videos of exams on the ABRSM website but they are very interesting; different instruments, different grades, all appraised by the chief examiner, with comments explaining why they were marked as they were.

cocopops · 25/04/2019 12:34

Interesting AlsoPlayPiccolo. I sent off the feedback form in any event for the singing exam just because I do feel there was something really off with that set of exams/examiner.

I really wanted to ask why all of the results for this particular exam session at DD's school were lower than expected. Surely they can't all have flunked it on the day!

This has severely dented my confidence in ABRSM and makes me question forking out a shit load of money for any more exams on her 3 instruments :(

GaraMedouar · 25/04/2019 14:04

Oh definitely , all depends on the examiner. My DS took his violin grade 1 Spring session, got a low pass even though well ahead, took violin grade 2 in the next summer session (I can't remember why that was many yeArs back) and got a high merit. He can't have improved that much in 3 months! I always think string players are fairer markers for string exams as they understand the instrument more. My DD scraped a low pass for grade 1 violin, she was age 6. I listened outside and she played fantastically, I predicted a high pass, low merit. Same as her teacher. I accompanied her on piano too ago was in for her pieces. I think she scored low due to her age and size of violin. It was only an 1/8th. Not a good sound really. Her violin teacher had a number of pupils who were scored very harshly.

Aquifolium · 28/04/2019 22:30

I have 2 dd’s who were examined on different instruments at grade 5 on the same day ( but not consecutively). They both got the same mark. (Good pass) One of them had prepared carefully for months and her very experienced teacher predicted a merit. The other had not.

I would say the one who prepared more conscientiously is actually the more creative musically, but is less of a natural performer than the other one.

There are so many different elements to what these examiners are measuring that it’s not surprising they are all over the place.

Genevieva · 29/04/2019 08:56

We had some problems with an ABRSM examiner. I didn't say anything because the result was still a merit overall. We are not entirely sure, but either the pianist didn't pause before repeating the aural piece, or he only played it once. My son has ASD and had a routine for thinking about different possible questions in the first and second listening opportunity, so he was completely thrown by the situation and couldn't answer. He was too consumed with panic by things not being as he expected them to be and he has a stammer that gets really bad when he is stressed. It was very disappointing, as ABRSM knew about his diagnosis.

Original poster
PantTwizzler · 01/05/2019 08:47

Interesting points re the “performance” aspect. Same DD did grade 6 singing recently and got 135. Very friendly, warm examiner and comments specifically on how much she enjoyed the performance of the pieces.

OP posts:
zzzzzzzx · 02/05/2019 07:40

DD just got results from her grade 6 exam. She got a merit (120) and thought she'd failed. She said she really messed up the scales as he asked a question at the start in a confusing way that really threw her off and she was a bit iffy on them anyway having learned them all in a short space of time. She predicted herself 5 out of 21 at best on the scales and said that nothing else was good enough to bring that mark up to a pass. She actually got 13/21. She's very pleased but knows it was very generous marking! Only a few weeks before, her teacher was saying her pieces were only just at a pass standard. She's particularly pleased because she is having to stop playing the clarinet as she has jaw problems and has just had an operation so wanted to stop in a grade. If she had failed she would have had to re-take rather than just carry on with the next grade and this would have conflicted with her op. So all very pleased but surprised!

stucknoue · 02/05/2019 07:46

It's hit or miss. We had two exams voided with free retake due to poor marking - once (due to drilling in next room), they said candidate restarted, seemed distracted, well yes, the other the piano pedal wasn't working and it was really poor instrument - teacher reported the centre

Aquifolium · 02/05/2019 19:58

And the cost! My goodness I just agreed to my dd found an exam on her 2nd study... only grade 3 but best part of £50. Hopefully she will fare better this time with it being part of a public sesssion rather than a special visit.

Aquifolium · 02/05/2019 19:59

Grade 2