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Music scholarship should be better avoided if you are serious about music

70 replies

Kutik73 · 17/01/2018 05:46

I wonder how many people agree with this.... Someone I know claims that if you are very serious about music, as in aiming for a successful performance career, should not be a music scholar at mainstream school.

Her point is, music scholarship is great for moderately serious musicians who enjoy performing and learning opportunities at school and whose main focus is academia rather than music. But if you are VERY serious, then scholars' commitments are simply too much and can be great burden, no worth sacrificing individual practice time which is far more important (for serious musicians).

She thinks too many young 'serious' musicians spend their precious time on school musical commitments as a scholar while they should really spend more time on honing their skills at home instead. You can join and enjoy school musical activities for fun and social reasons of course, but you can do so without being a scholar. It's much better to enjoy school musical life without duties on your shoulders, so you have freedom to decide how much to commit time to time and maintain your priority of personal requirements as a serious musician.

She is talking about classical string players who attend Saturday conservatoires, NCO or similar so already have opportunities to play in high standard orchestras/ensembles outside school. So I understand it would be a totally different story for other instruments/fields/circumstances - for instance, some instruments/fields require less individual practice time/disciplines, or no many orchestral opportunities available outside school.

Do you agree or disagree? Any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

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Floottoot · 18/01/2018 07:14

Well done to miniKutik - wonderful news!
Is it his/your first choice school?
Exciting times, for sure.

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Trumpetboysmum · 18/01/2018 07:22

Ds ISVs always asking for home ed / we wouldn't survive a week together so I have always said no !! Grin

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Bekabeech · 18/01/2018 07:44

I have experience of students at several different schools - and there are some who will probably be becoming professional musicians who have been educated in a variety of settings: Home Ed, State and both Public schools and normal independents. I think the key thing is just how flexible the school is, and how understanding.
My DD was a chorister (unlikely to be a professional singer) and her school was very flexible at times - allowed absences and even reduced homework for her during an especially busy Christmas (concerts and services). But one key thing I accidentally learnt - don't just rely on what the Music department say, in my DD's case the general pastoral/academic staff were actually far more supportive than the Music department.
A friend at a generally supportive school - was pushed to drop outside commitments but keep the school ones when she was struggling with stress. I'm not sure that was the best balance for the girl in question.

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Trumpetboysmum · 18/01/2018 08:47

Bekabeech that's really interesting ( and makes me feel better about our choices so far I think) The music department at Ds's school are great and he is always allowed time off for music commitments plus the other staff according to ds are always talking to him about his music which I think helps . A certain very famous pop artist went to his school so I think they are quite used to dealing with students who perhaps don't intend to follow a regular path through education ( though I'm not sure how much this singer did whilst he was at school) Hopefully it will all work out fine - as long as we all keep talking !!

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Kutik73 · 18/01/2018 09:05

I think Bekabeech nailed it on the head. It really depends on how flexible and understanding the school is. It would also depend on the person in charge in a particular year.

Then my next question would be MN pet-hate privates vs states. Again, I am sure it'll vary from school to school so whether state or private may not be a key factor. But just as a general tendency, I have a feeling that states would be more rigid purely because they don't have the freedom privates would have.

What does your experience tell you on this?

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Kutik73 · 18/01/2018 09:20

Trumpet, I always find it so encouraging every time I hear you talk about your DS's school. They are amazingly supportive to your young musician. I am so glad to hear state school being so flexible and trying to cater individual needs like that. However, the amount of GCSE subjects your DS is facing to is very scary. I understand you are going to talk to the school on this matter. It'll be interesting to see how the school respond to your queries. I really hope state school is not as rigid as I fear.

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Kutik73 · 18/01/2018 09:30

Floot, thanks. It was DS's first choice between May to November last year. Grin Then, the state option became his first choice from November. But I suspect it's partly because he came 1st in their music aptitude assessments and I think he liked the fact that he did well and started liking the school! He is as simple as this...

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claraschu · 18/01/2018 09:48

For a banknote, surely a quotation about money would be appropriate: "A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of." - Mansfield Park

Or, if they want one about reading, perhaps a more amusing one: "The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid." - Northanger Abbey

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claraschu · 18/01/2018 09:48

Oh sorry- wrong thread

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Floottoot · 18/01/2018 10:02

Regarding the state v. private school issue, I think it really does come down to individual schools.
I went to a state comp while attending a London JD. My school allowed me to take O level music a year early, with the head of music teaching me at lunchtime. My state 6th form was full of exceptional musicians, so again, lots of flexibility for time off for auditions etc.
My experience of state secondaries with my DD more recently suggests that they wouldn't be quite so accommodating, simply because they need to keep attendance figures up and they are largely about crowd-control, ie if they allow one student special dispensation, they'd have to allow others for different situations.

DS is in his first year as a music scholar in an independent school, and so far, so good. He's not actually had to ask for special allowances yet, but we have found it much easier to approach the school about any issues - there is a sense we get, rightly or wrongly, that it's much more of a 2 way, personal relationship ( possibly down to the smaller size? Or maybe the fact we are paying customers?)

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drummersmum · 18/01/2018 10:14

Ah, claraschu I loved that post even if it landed in the wrong thread!Smile

kutik some people want something in life, they ask for it. Others don't. Some people feel uncomfortable in a plane, they ask to change seats. Others don't. What I mean is that a school can be rigid or flexible but ultimately if you don't ask you don't get. No school is going to come to you and say they see your child is very committed to music, would your child like to miss PE, skip homework, etc? You will always have to ask, both at private and state, which makes it very dependable on the child and the parents.
I recently met a young man at a party who is now at Oxford and was a regular pianist at DS school. We were chatting about the difficulty of juggling everything and he told me that when he was asked to play at a, for example, school musical, he told the teachers "don't expect any homework from me this week". This had no negative outcome on his results. I was dumbstruck and immediately rewinded to all the stressful late nights of DS finishing homework during rehearsals and performances. Even when I told DS about my conversation he was somehow dismissive of the idea, because if DS can finish a homework he will. However, we have recently been given some flexibility to fit in piano practice start of day and it was DS' idea as he saw it had become impossible at any other time. So when he really needed it and saw no other way, he asked for it. Schools (normal, not specialist) need to see three things: one: that your child's commitment to music is true and serious, two: that academic demands are hindering that music commitment/progress, and three: that your child's academic progress will not be too affected by missing school time ( whether because the child is doing very well, or he's willing to make up for the lost time somehow, or if travelling is required, that things have been put in place for tutoring/studying/support during travels).

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Eryri1981 · 18/01/2018 10:29

Both my music teachers sons got boarding school music scholarships. As adults one has emigrated to the states and works as a jazz performance musician, the other (more talented) one has forged a successful career in music production in his chosen genre, and has also recorded/ performed alongside one of the biggest names of our generation in this genre. I think their parents were both a little disappointed that neither of them went down the classical route, but they have certainly been very successful in their chosen musical careers, if they had remained at home they may have been more guided by their parents as to what genre of music suited them, rather than finding their own way.

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Kutik73 · 18/01/2018 10:51

drummers, yes I agree, I also thought it would depend on the parents/child's approach to the school. I'm totally fine with DS cuts corners when needed. In fact I prefer DS gains the skill of cutting corners to prioritise tasks so he doesn't need to suffer unnecessarily. But DS is a kind of boy who doesn't like missing duties so he may not allow me to talk to school to make his life easier. Hopefully he'll learn to prioritise things and can work out and has a courage to talk to the school like just yours did so for himself.

Those three points are so spot on. I must remember.

Eryri, finding their own way is far better even though it may mean they make more mistakes on the course!

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Bekabeech · 18/01/2018 14:13

My DD was at a State school, and not the "music specialist" one locally. But it is also high achieving and very "strict" but we've always found them very humane and flexible. For example willing to reschedule a detention when it conflicted with choir, or more recently to make a note when I informed them one DC could be slightly late because of issues beyond their control.
On the other hand I would suspect (and know in the past) that a local "caring" private girls school is often pretty inflexible in practice.

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Bekabeech · 18/01/2018 14:17

Oh my DDs absences for choir were always marked in the register as : approved educational activity.

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SE13Mummy · 29/01/2018 09:58

I can only speak from my experience but surely whether or not to avoid a music scholarship depends upon the school and upon the other opportunities available to a young musician?

DD1 has a music scholarship to a local state school. The only monetary value is a 50% discount on the cost of peripatetic music lessons for one year. The only commitment is that scholars take part in at least one of the school's musical ensembles. They are also regularly invited to perform in music assemblies, take part in outreach activities with local primaries and are given priority access to practice rooms. This feels like a fairly happy balance and the school in general is actively supportive of pupils who need time off to take part in music elsewhere e.g. brass workshop at the Albert Hall, a week off school to go abroad with a marching band that is nothing to do with school. Being a music scholar has been good for DD's confidence and means she has been identified as a capable brass player from the outset e.g. she was asked to play The Last Post on Remembrance Day but couldn't (was away on Y8 residential) so the head of music did it instead.

DD's participation in school music feels about right for the moment (she's also v.academic and sporty) but as she started Y7, she also started attending a JD. The opportunities she has at the JD are very different from those available to her at school and provide a level of challenge that school music doesn't always. School music ensembles are very sociable and confidence-boosting whereas JD has sometimes left her feeling very down about her abilities mostly when comparing herself to much older brass players or strings who started in utero. Crucially, school offers her the opportunity to be one of a number of girl brass players whereas at JD, she is the only girl at her level.

We're not in a position to consider specialist private education so do our best for DD with what we can access. We don't qualify for MDS (two teachers, London-weighting) so pay full whack for JD. I'm glad we can do it for her though as I know that an individual lesson plus school music wouldn't give her anything like the musical education she receives through the JD. When considering JDs, I did look into the intake to see if there were more state school pupils at some than at others as it felt important for DD to be somewhere that she would encounter other children in her position. Of the London JDs, the one she attends seemed to have the highest proportion of state school pupils. Things like NCO have never been considered, in part because of the expense but also because of threads on MN about the high standard required; I find it intimidating, never mind DD!

So far, we're happy with the music scholarship at a flexible state school, topped up by Saturdays at JD.

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Trumpetboysmum · 29/01/2018 10:40

SE that sounds like a really good balance . Ds is also a brass player doesn't go to a jd but AYM where there's a good mix of state and privately educated pupils. As it's really small he gets the opportunity to play regularly with much older ( and better!) brass players which is really good for him. His school are great though I think he is feeling the pressure currently in balancing it all but he takes everything very seriously. And is his own worst enemy at times. A good chat with the head of year today has made me feel better . Really I think you need a supportive school - whether it's state or private hopefully this will continue to work out in this way for ds and your dd Smile

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Kutik73 · 31/01/2018 18:52

SE13, it's so nice to hear your story. DS is also starting as a music scholar at a state secondary from September. He also goes to JD. Currently he goes to a very relaxing local primary. However an hour and half journey and an hour homework will be added to his daily routine from September, and of course he has duties as a scholar too. I'm very worried about the juggling already. Though, commitments as a scholar seem to be much less than the private schools we considered. I hope DS enjoys the musical opportunities and experiences at the school like your DD.

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Notrightnowww · 02/02/2018 08:58

It was a long time ago now, but I had a choice between a music scholarship at a big private boarding school, or a place at a specialist music school. Also played in NYO and other regional orchestras.

I chose specialist music school, and still think the environment and tuition there was better than what the scholarship could have offered, not least because of the amazing group of peer musicians at school. My parents wanted me to take the scholarship so I’d get the (non-Musial) advantages of the big boarding school!

I decided against a career in music, and studied something entirely different at Uni, but I don’t for a minute regret music school, and still think it was the better of the two options I had.

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Michaelahpurple · 09/02/2018 08:08

To SE13mummy, if she fancies NCO and you can manage the cost I wouldn't let the rumours of high standards put you off. My horn playing son is in the under 12s this year, his second and only took his grade 5 at Christmas. Admittedly I was surprised he got in and I think the strings standard is, as ever, somewhat nose-bleed inducing but whilst he is very much not a star, he seems to cling on ok.

If she is at a JD, which he isn't (I toyed with it a couple of years ago but he always seemed to be a year behind where he needed to be and he has a teacher he likes very much now, so I think we have rather missed the chance to even have a punt) I'd imagine she would be very much in the zone.

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