Music scholarship should be better avoided if you are serious about music

[Kutik73]

I wonder how many people agree with this.... Someone I know claims that if you are very serious about music, as in aiming for a successful performance career, should not be a music scholar at mainstream school.

Her point is, music scholarship is great for moderately serious musicians who enjoy performing and learning opportunities at school and whose main focus is academia rather than music. But if you are VERY serious, then scholars' commitments are simply too much and can be great burden, no worth sacrificing individual practice time which is far more important (for serious musicians).

She thinks too many young 'serious' musicians spend their precious time on school musical commitments as a scholar while they should really spend more time on honing their skills at home instead. You can join and enjoy school musical activities for fun and social reasons of course, but you can do so without being a scholar. It's much better to enjoy school musical life without duties on your shoulders, so you have freedom to decide how much to commit time to time and maintain your priority of personal requirements as a serious musician.

She is talking about classical string players who attend Saturday conservatoires, NCO or similar so already have opportunities to play in high standard orchestras/ensembles outside school. So I understand it would be a totally different story for other instruments/fields/circumstances - for instance, some instruments/fields require less individual practice time/disciplines, or no many orchestral opportunities available outside school.

Do you agree or disagree? Any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

[Trumpetboysmum]

Really that's the sort of arrangement I'm looking for for ds. He will be taking GCSE music and they have already discussed with him how they can make it relevant to him- which is good. He seems to have got a system where he misses assemblies etc to play in ensembles or compose but his school do 11 GCSEs plus core RS . I really think he would be better doing 9 or 10 GCSEs well and then having extra time in school either for school work or practice ( not sure that they're going to go for it though) he's bright so would do well enough in a reduced number of GCSEs to keep his options open

[Trumpetboysmum]

Kutik Ds said that's exactly what the trumpet player who he spoke to last week said . The school he went to also gets good academic results ( though maybe in fewer subjects not sure?)

[drummersmum]

Ah yes trumpet you're totally the same. Plenty of super Pepper Potts behind the children in these threads!

[gillybeanz]

Kutik

It's the same practice to become proficient on whichever instrument you choose. Isn't it something like 10 or 15k hours?

I do sort of agree with you, if a person is going to be a musician they will be, no matter what school they attend. It's a calling and those dedicated will get to where they want to be irrespective of most other influences, except from parental support/involvement, I suppose.

I think a lot of parents encourage dc to play music to gain scholarships so that they can attend a good school where their general education will be better. It can save them money and the emphasis is on music as a means to an end not as a profession, to look good on a cv for a good uni. Passing grade 8 seems to be the only goal.

[GI76]

gillybeanz music scholarships nowadays are not worth much. It is false economy to think that you'll be saving money with music scholarship to a very academic school- at most these are 10, 20%. These money will be spend much before the child sits for music scholarship.
But I agree that there are many routes to become a musician and if the child has it in them it will happen if the parent wants it or not. As long as they are supportive with time and money.

[gillybeanz]

I do think if the child is motivated and dedicated to a life in music then the specialist music schools can be the way forward.
I think they all offer day attendance or weekly boarding as well as full boarding.

At dd school the actual school day is from 8.30 until 4.30, and during this time over 1/3 of the time is dedicated to music.
On top of this they have rehearsals for ensembles, practice/ alternating prep. This depends if practice is streamed during the school day.

I'm told that many are in a practice room from 7.30am, including my dd who sent me a picture of the frost from her practice room.
The caption "Far too early for practising scales"

[Trumpetboysmum]

Gilly the sort of set up you describe is really what ds is after . Maybe I should get my calculator out again its too late now to apply for next year but I'm considering letting him look around in the autumn have an advice audition etc IF school won't be flexible and because his school do a 3 year KS4 we will have had some experience of that before we make a decision, still don't know if we can afford it though (especially now we have moved partly so that he can practice without annoying the neighbours !!)

[Kutik73]

Interesting. I started this thread this morning, and DS got an offer for a music scholarship in the same morning! Time to think a lot....

[Kutik73]

its too late now to apply for next year

I think music specialist schools don't really have a firm deadline? Or you prefer waiting a bit more to keep the other options open?

[Trumpetboysmum]

That's exactly it Kutik - I just keep kicking the can down the road and holding off on any decisions for a while . It might be irrelevant anyway as although he's good he's no child prodigy sorry wasn't meaning to hijack your discussion about the merits of music scholarships - and well done ( again) to your ds . I don't envy your decision making !!

[gillybeanz]

Trumpet

DD school has open day tomorrow, I'm not sure about the others but they audition right up until July, for the same year entry, it's not too late.
Not sure if this will help at all.

www.gov.uk/music-dance-scheme

I'm pretty sure that they are mostly the same from what I hear and would be happy to give any info/answer any questions.

[Trumpetboysmum]

Thank you gilly. I did know they had an open day this week , had been looking when ds was having another of his " I don't have any time for music because school don't get it moments" . For now though I just need to get him through his next set of school exams so this weekend needs to be chilled ( with a bit of revision and some music practice). I think they also have one in the autumn and as they don't start their KS4 till year 10 in my mind it's ok to put it off for a bit longer - and see how AYM works out for a whole year first. He loves AYM it's just a very difficult juggle at times ( currently school are placing a lot of emphasis on their upcoming exams but most of the teachers have yet to tell them what to revise expecting that they will have at least the weekend before the exams to prepare ds is away on an AYM course all that weekend and has explained that he has this weekend instead to prepare- but it hasn't really helped- hence the stress )

[Kutik73]

Trumpet, you haven't hijacked at all - all your posts are so relevant to my concerns because DS may soon be in your DS's shoes.

Please keep posting any struggle/concern/solution (if any!) in regard to balancing the demand of academic and music at secondary and beyond!

[gillybeanz]

here's a thought.

If your dc are bright there's the argument that they will do well in any school?
However, if they attend a school that doesn't put the emphasis on academic subjects, like a music school, they will continue to do well academically.
My dd quite often complained about how difficult it was being surrounded by children who were bright academically when she struggles. I know that you quite often get bright children who excel at music, but not all musical children are academic.
I think children are able to reach their potential at these schools, which for us far outweighed the opportunities in our local state school, even though we have a good/excellent music service.

We know she will never be a grade 7/8/9 in her GCSE's, but it doesn't matter as she'll manage the bare min requirements to audition for her chosen conservatoire.
She doesn't constantly have teachers pushing for better results, feeling like a failure, or worried about her future.
This enables her to concentrate on music, which she believes is her future.

[PandasRock]

I have a dc starting secondary in September, on a music scholarship.

Music is her passion, but there were many many things to consider when choosing her secondary school.

She will be going to a small, nurturing school where she is valued as an individual, as well as for her musical talents. For her, a specialist music school was not possible (geographically, and she is not ready for boarding).

I trust her current school (which has a fearsome reputation for music) and their judgement on where might suit - she has been there for 7 years already, and they are well aware of her strengths. It is a tough decision to make, and I do worry about the transition, and what the change of teachers might mean - music lessons are a lot more personal than class lessons, and I know from my own experience how much a poor relationship with your instrument teacher can hinder growth and development.

One thing is sure, as a pp said, being awarded the scholarship has already done a huge amount for her confidence.

[claraschu]

String players need more practice time than kids who play wind, brass, or percussion instruments, so some parents who have kids who play wind instruments might be thinking of practice time in a different way than a string player would...

For anyone who has a child who is a very dedicated string player or pianist, the Menuhin School is really wonderful. I can't praise it highly enough. The supportive atmosphere, fantastic musical education, and all the opportunities are just amazing- a dream come true for the kids who really want to be string players and struggle to make that work in mainstream education.
You can go as a day pupil or boarding, but you would have to live quite close to go as a day pupil.
The kids do very well in their academic classes, especially considering that a very high % are foreign.
You will get funding if you are British and need funding.
You can apply at any time of the year, I think.
Send me a message, if you are curious about it-

[Trumpetboysmum]

Gilly I totally get what you are saying and it sounds like you definitely made the right choice for your dd. I'm sure ds will do fine academically wherever he goes , but he's not one of those effortlessly ? bright children and feels he has to work and puts himself under pressure. He said because he works hard and contributes well in class the teachers expect a lot of him . It is this that I need to unpick with school as yes we want him to show what he's capable of but that doesn't necessarily mean doing well at the expense of his other interests and some time for himself or even as well as he might if he didn't have music . One size doesn't fit all and I hear his frustrations . We have an options evening soon and I will then be asking for an appointment with the head of year to see what we can do.

[disorganisedmummy]

Hi all, I thought I'd put out our situation and see what you all think.

Ds is 11 and in year 7 at a wonderful non selective independent school. He has been there since he was 2.ds has Aspergers and is v high functioning. He needs to be in nurturing environment. He plays violin and is about grade 6/7 standard. School are not great for Music but they support him where they can.

He is in 3 orchestras, one of which is a county orchestra. He is lead violinist in a string ensemble and is about to start in a new quartet where he will be leading. He also got to our local, council run Music school on a Saturday. He has "outgrown" this and has just applied to JD (we're waiting for an audition date). We have been told ds is gifted especially aurally and has perfect pitch. He has a phenomenal musical ear. He want to pursue a career in Music but not so much as a soloist,more in orchestras.

We decided against specialist Music school as this stage as ds would have to board and he is simply not ready for that yet. We feel, as does his violin teacher that his best bet is to go down the JD route and maybe go for specialist Music school at 16? Ds is struggling to manage practice with homework plus orchestra commitments. I'm trying to help him be more organised but it's so hard when he gets so tired from school still.

So that's our situation. I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts?

[GI76]

gilly and claraschu I have been thinking for a while now, that my musical DS2, (state school Y5, at NCO, also very able academically) may be better served as a day pupil in Y7 music specialist school. Do they finish by 4pm? we are about 30 min car drive and we are not looking at boarding for him.

[EggsonHeads]

I think that it really depends on the school. My school made a habit of sending gifted pupils out of school as often as possible to improve whatever it was they were good at e.g. Gifted mathematics were sent to the local university to attend maths lectures. Fifteen musicians were sent to sone kind of music camp thingy overseas with very talented musicians (don't know much about), generally G&T pupils were sent to philosophy workshops and so on.

[Dapplegrey]

Musicians like Benjamin Grosvenor and Lang Lanf barely went to school: practice, practice, practice. Lesson. Practice practice practice.
You'd have to be so dedicated and ambitious and even after all those tens of thousands of hours there's absolutely no guarantee of a successful career.
A few make it. Most don't.

[drummersmum]

To be honest, home education is best if you want a Lang Lang. But it wasn't for us. In terms of different instruments requiring different practice times, yes. But re percussion people get the wrong idea. You would be surprised at how much percussion requires because you have to practice several instruments, each one different! So one hour on one, one hour on another, etc and you soon find yourself with a very tight schedule... Parents of percussionists always talk about the same. (after talking about home space issues...)

[Paulweller11]

I would agree- percussionists need just as much practice time as string players, due to the sheer amount of Instruments they have to learn. I have one of each, a violinist and a percussionist. The percussionist is always still practicing after the violinist has finished.....

[gillybeanz]

I've never heard anyone say that any instrument needs less practice.
I understand that most start woodwind and brass a few years later, but they don't need less practice, any fewer hours and less practice for what.

One thing I have learned from many well respected musicians is you never know it all. You have never finished and that practice is what you do forever.
If you have a concert/gig/appearance/interview that day or night you don't practice.
Otherwise you are practising, it's part of your job.

I agree about the H.ed remark, even though we only did 3 years before dd went to school.
It's an agreed arrangement to do it again if her school doesn't work out.
The fact these schools are so demanding (if that's the word) we feel we need to assess suitability half termly.

G176

Ours don't finish util 4.30 and there are rehearsals at night and Saturday morning.
I know there are some non boarders there early evening as some ensembles rehearse then.
I'm not sure as dd boards, we are only 45 train ride away and sameish for car.
We opted for boarding as dd would have been doing prep on the train or worse when she got home. It really wasn't practical for us as she'd have had no down time at all just school, bed.

[Kutik73]

If specialist school ever becomes an option for us, we will probably consider only boarding. It just makes more sense for us.

Re home-ed, you've got to think of the personality of the child. It would work beautifully for certain types of DCs, and it would be a big mistake for others.

I don't really mind home-ed to be honest (in fact I may enjoy it very much), but it wouldn't suit DS at all. He loves school.