Suzuki vs traditional for piano

[Manoxlon]

I am keen on getting my 3y old started on the piano, and hopefully she would carry on with the music theory exam. I have read great things about the suzuki method but one drawback seems to be that one does not learn to read music? any one had any views to share on this topic ?

[guidomallardi]

A good idea for youngest is playing music games and funny exercises.
Also, I use to play little concerts for newborns and toddlers.
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[Worriedandlost]

Good luck with your new venture!

[Manoxlon]

thanks worried- yep I'm
precisely not rushing hence why I am exploring various methods etc... I am (In theory) in the camp of mastering-before-moving on. I've done this with dd for her maths and literacy and in the long term I think it works better as a method. I agree 100 percent that fir music this may not apply! thanks for all the suggestions!!

[Worriedandlost]

Nurtured with Love is ok book, couple of thoughts are interesting but otherwise not in touch with the real world as far as I am concerned.

I would highly recommend not to jump into any ideas before you start music lessons, especially if you don't know how your dd will respond to the lessons. My dd had a number of piano teachers and the worst was the one who made her to master a piece to perfection for weeks - it was soooo boring and the truth is that with the bright but young child it may not be possible at all. I finally got a teacher whose ideas feel right - she gives a lot of pieces of different complexity and thus building repertoir and improving sight reading, etc - as opoosed to polishing one piece for weeks.

This also matches to this idea which I really like
elissamilne.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/the-hal-leonard-australia-40-piece-challenge-2013-suggestions-for-getting-started/

[Manoxlon]

Thanks for great comments- I have a few months of piano..... working on the kawai cs10. I am doing the JT book 1, finishing it in two weeks time alongside the Bartok Mikrokosmos. theory grade 1 I am about 20 per cent of the way. The point on reading the Suzuki book. yep, I have done that. it has got nothing on the actual method, true, it is a practice book. I am about to start reading Nurtured with Love and hopefully get some inspiration. going back to suzuki 1 and the twinkle, I guess that IS PRECISELY the point of the method, is it not? that one should practise a piece ( or anything for that matter) until they MASTER it before moving to the next level. that's my understanding of one of the tenets of suzuki- repeat until you master, hence the different variations of twinkle... I suppose a less "fun" method than others, including JT for that matter. But I do take on board the idea if making piano "lessons" fun first and foremost. I suppose there's a higher chance dd will stick with it if it's fun!

[Worriedandlost]

Mmm, what I meant is that Suzuki method is not really explained in the book, as well as fingering, etc. No excersises and then all of a sudden Twinke variation which is not really straight forward for someone who is just starting lessons, let alone 3 yo. I also do not think that level of progression in this book is suitable for 3yo. I would say that an average 3yo would enjoy a variety of short pieces more than technical and pretty long exercises of Suzuki. There are more suitable and engaging books for 3yo which any parent can follow, not even musical one. And these include sight reading basics too.

UptoapointLordCopper if you managed to teach your 3yo using first Suzuki book 1 only, without knowing what is method all about, I can only relate it to the fact that you are very knowledgeable about music and your 3 y.o. is extremely gifted, but with all the respect to the other participants in this discussin it is a very combination

I never had piano Suzuki books but I have violin ones. It was introduced by dd's violin teacher after about one year of doing violin and we had to leave it because it was still too tricky for her (5yo). And she is reasonably musical. And as far as I am concerned - this book was only good as a musical score, not as a teaching guidance.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I did use Suzuki book 1 at home. They made perfect sense to me. Every piece introduces a new technique and a new understanding. But now that DS2 has got uppity and ideas of what he likes and doesn't like we might have to ditch Book 2 half way through and pick things more of this liking.

[Worriedandlost]

This is the book dd's first teacher used when she started her lessons at 4+. It is quite self explanatory and easy to follow
www.amazon.co.uk/Alfreds-Basic-Piano-Course-Lesson/dp/0739009273/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439075766&sr=1-7&keywords=Alfred%20piano%20prep%20course&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Worriedandlost]

Word of warning -I don't think that Suzuki books are good for home use, as far as I am concerned they don't make any sence without a qualified Suzuki teacher. Some books recommended above would suit much better for the mum-guided home lessons.
This is Suzuki book 1 for piano
docs.google.com/file/d/0By_QZ9qeTb8geDdmQzNqbURvZGs/edit?pli=1

[Ferguson]

I think if you buy the first couple of Suzuki books, you can adapt them for your own requirements merging with conventional ideas.

As a TA I introduced children to music in an 'informal' way for twenty years - keyboard, recorder and percussion. PLAYING (in every sense of the word) came first, and learning to read music or a bit of theory was not really on my agenda.

You didn't tell me if it's an acoustic or electronic instrument; and what is your own level and knowledge of music?

[Manoxlon]

Thanks for great comments - I was attracted by the Suzuki method for my dd because of its philosophy- that every one can learn music (as long as they put in the effort) just as any other skill such as language for eg. And the fact that it seems designed for kids to start at a young age is also v appealing. I have looked at Suzuki piano teachers locally but unfortunately there are none where I live. I will likely get her to do a conventional piano course and try to "coach" her the Suzuki way as much I can ie learn to listen, attend as many group activities as possible, daily practice, attend lessons with her, etc!

[Worriedandlost]

Of course! I am not arguing. Perfect pitch is not an asset without musical training :)

[UptoapointLordCopper]

But that's not due to perfect pitch alone. Someone with perfect pitch without training wouldn't be able to do that. It's not at all certain that someone without pefect pitch can't be trained to do that.

I don't even know why I'm talking about this! I think training is everything. Perfect pitch or otherwise is just a distraction.

[Worriedandlost]

Mmm, don't see any contradictions in BBC article...
I have to admit I am yet to learn more about scientific side of this question, so far I was only interested in it only due to the fact that dh has perfect pitch (he is one of those who comes to the instrument and plays whatever by ear straigt away) and dd seems to inherit it from him. Just facinating to see how some things go throgh the generations.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

That is, out of context. But after a few bars I'll hear if you play them out of tune. Useful for supervising string practice (after a few confused first minutes).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Perfect pitch may not be perfect pitch

I myself hear notes 1 semitone out most of the time ...

[Worriedandlost]

Mmm, I don't know :) I was talking about this particular aspect-playing by ear, and not about global advanategs/disadvantages of having perfect pitch :)

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Sure, but so what if he has/has not perfect pitch? There are many other factors much more important in a musical education ...

TBH he's probably got it. But it's not very important so far.

[Worriedandlost]

This is true.... But I would not discount musicality of the student too... :)
Perhaps your Ds2 has perfect pitch. You can check it like this for example - you play a note without him seeing it (sorry, I missed what instrument he is playing), and he will know immediately what you played if he has perfect pitch (will play or name it).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I see. But there are so many variables. Not all Suzuki teacher teaches the same way either. As a teacher (of my DC) I take the position that the child can be taught and just set about it without thinking too much of the talent vs training business...

I think a good teacher in both "traditional" and Suzuki methods will probably cover similar bases.

[Worriedandlost]

UptoapointLordCopper, my dd can pick up tune by ear and she did not have Suzuki training, in fact she could do it in her first year of learning music. On the other hand I know a child who is at the end of her second Suzuki book and cannot do it. So, I really believe it is smth to do with one's pitch.

[StompyBlueNose]

I agree. Having experienced suzuki method with my own children for the past 8 year, it has been nothing but fantastic!

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I've heard many negative things about the Suzuki method, but personally I think it's very well-designed and a miracle!

[StompyBlueNose]

My dc learn suzuki violin and it is a absolutely wonderful method. Dd(11) just scored 144 in her grade 7 violin exam, including achieving a high mark for sightreading. Although dc don't start at age 3/4 with music in front of them, it isn't long before they are encouraged to start reading the music and also exploring other music. My youngest Dd is about to start suzuki violin at age 4 and I would have chosen suzuki method of we had gone for the piano for her. Have you seen the list if suzuki teachers online?

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I don't think too much about that - it's a matter of training. You train your musical memory as you go along. I don't know about perfect pitch... DS2 picks out tune by ear (he was rendering the Classic FM theme tune the other day ) but it's not clear how much of that was because he's got "a good ear" and how much of that was because he's been taught to have "a good ear".