What happens with the NI border in the event of No Deal?

[Bearbehind]

I can’t get my head round this.

If we leave with no deal then what happens regarding the NI border?

[whyamidoingthis]

@Eve - You say about the army being scary - what’s worse was driving along a country lane late at night and getting the lights of a checkpoint and not knowing if it’s army, IRA or other stopping you.

Yeah. That was the type of checkpoint where I had a rifle held to my temple.

You're probably right about the anti-English sentiment still there in certain areas. Maybe more so in border areas. Is that in NI or Ireland you've experienced it?

[prettybird]

I still remember, when I worked for ICI, which treated the island of Ireland as a single entity even back in 1988, driving with the Irish sales team from a product launch/presentation in Belfast to their customers there, down to Dublin to do the (same) presentation to their customers there.

I was horrified at the security around police stations in NI and then the watchtowers and, well, emptiness of the border area (which the Irish sales team explained to me was the "badlands" ).

I'd had NI friends at Uni (and it was only a few years post graduation) but I'd never been and it was a shock to the system to actually see the impact of the "Troubles"

It shows how naive I was that I noticed all the security at the hotel we were staying in in Belfast: and only realised in the morning that it was directly opposite a stately home with a very long straight drive up to it .....

Someone had to tell me that it was Stormont.

Yet as a Glaswegian, I was probably more aware than many in the UK of the issues in NI

[Eve]

I think in some areas anti English feeling still exists.

I’m NI born - from bandit country - but lived in England last 25 years so have quite an English accent. I do notice a slightly hostile / colder treatment in shops etc when I speak. It gets better after a few days once the accent goes native again!

You say about the army being scary - what’s worse was driving along a country lane late at night and getting the lights of a checkpoint and not knowing if it’s army, IRA or other stopping you.

[whyamidoingthis]

@bellinisurge - Assuming no bad feelings. If it looks dodgy we will cancel our holiday and not go

You'll be fine. Bad feeling against the english isn't personal. Any anti-english sentiment tends to be more abstract and against the type of carry on by your government or tv stations claiming Irish sports people etc.

[bellinisurge]

Planning to be in Ireland on 31 October. With Irish born FIL and our Irish surname and our UK plates. Assuming no bad feelings. If it looks dodgy we will cancel our holiday and not go.

[whyamidoingthis]

@Shutupanddance1 - No idea what will truly happen but I assume my 30 min drive to my sisters house in Derry will take much longer.

Particularly if you meet the soldier who wouldn't let my friend cross the border unless he called it Londonderry instead of Derry.

[Shutupanddance1]

No idea what will truly happen but I assume my 30 min drive to my sisters house in Derry will take much longer.

[placemats]

The UVF wouldn't get past twitter, never mind a road block.

[MrPan]

Oh definitely in France! If it was an old very stylish Citroen I would have been longer!
I doubt if the Cons right wing desperate to cling to.power give the GFA and Ireland overall a priority whatsoever. Its a problem to be managed. Badly.

[whyamidoingthis]

@jasjas1973 - I just not see the UVF etc sitting back and doing nothing.

That's what I'm afraid of. Ultimately, I want to see a united Ireland. But not like this.

[whyamidoingthis]

@placemats - You could have flown in from wherever and got the ferry across.

That's a pretty unlikely scenario. Most people driving British reg cars in Ireland tend to live in Britain. But yes, you are right, nobody would know his nationality. There would be a reasonable chance he was Irish but living in Britain.

[jasjas1973]

But how will that go down with the loyalist groups? could spark whole new terrorist campaigns during any transition period, so UK's problem to sort out and will delay, perhaps for decades, the unification process.

I just not see the UVF etc sitting back and doing nothing.

[placemats]

No one knows what nationality you are MrPan, despite your 'UK' registration (don't you know it's different in Northern Ireland?).

You could have flown in from wherever and got the ferry across. Hello?

Why would you drive someone's car around when clearly that wasn't the intention?

Would you have done that in France?

[placemats]

Northern Ireland will leave the union in event of a no deal Brexit exit.

Hope that helps.

I never thought I would see a United Ireland in my lifetime. However, it will happen in the event of a no deal.

[whyamidoingthis]

@MrPan - it was left open with the keys in the ignition, for me to drive this beautiful car around the village for a while before returning it to our 'space'.

I think it was for you to move it out of the way rather than for you to play with .

In my experience, the smaller the town or village, the closer to their destination people expect to be able to park. So with a choice of park several hundred metres away or block someone in but leave the keys so they can get out, the closer parking is likely to win.

[MrPan]

I drove round Ireland on a UK-Registration car. It was for a week, in cities and the country - no poor reaction whatsoever.
In one village on a Sunday morning our car was blocked in at the car park. I thought it was bad, until I checked the blocking Ford Zephyr - it was left open with the keys in the ignition, for me to drive this beautiful car around the village for a while before returning it to our 'space'. I think the driver was being playful rather than unpleasant.

[whyamidoingthis]

@Howzaboutye - *NI plates on the car is bad enough in the south, but English plates is/was really not good


Would you mind elaborating as I'm not sure what you mean? I've never seen or heard of any intimidating behaviour towards those in English or NI reg cars at checkpoints in the Republic. Given my reg is Irish, obviously I wouldn't have encountered it personally but I do have friends and family with both NI and English plates.

I assume that during the troubles there may have been more focus on NI cars but I don't see why English ones would have had? There certainly would be no need these days.

Back in the old days, my experience of soldiers at the border or at checkpoints was mixed. Some were, as you say, cold but polite. However, others were goady, antagonistic or intimidating. I know someone who was held at the border for hours because he said he was going to Derry rather than Londonderry. The soldiers wouldn't let him leave until he referred to it as Londonderry. In the end, he just told them he was turning around and going home. I was once stopped at a checkpoint and had a rifle held an inch from my head by a soldier while his partner checked my licence.

[Cailleach1]

I think the UK said it had no selfish strategic or economic interest in NI. And it was up to a majority of people of NI if they wanted to remain in the UK, or join Ireland. By way of plebiscite/referendum. re GFA.

Peter Brooke said this and it was reiterated by John Major on behalf of the British gov't in the Downing Street Declaration.

This is also from the Downing street Declaration in '93.

3. They also consider that the development of Europe will, of itself, require new approaches to serve interests common to both parts of the island of Ireland, and to Ireland and the United Kingdom as partners in the European Union.

www.johnmajorarchive.org.uk/1990-1997/text-of-the-downing-street-declaration-15-december-1993/

[Howzaboutye]

Yep, my experience but from the 'other side'.

NI plates on the car is bad enough in the south, but English plates is/was really not good

The soldiers were all very young English fellows. Very polite but cold. Maybe they were nicer to us in an NI car? Who knows.

Basically everyone should watch Derry Girls. The most accurate depiction of the time.

[threadneedle]

We drove from Dublin to Donegal this week, crossed the border into the north at Aughnacloy and out at Strabane. The only indication that you are in NI is road signs in Mph rather than kph. It is absolutely seemless.

In contrast when we used to go as children, the border crossing was thus:
Stop at lights a short distance from border. Wait anything from 5 mins to half an hour.
Soldiers patrolling with rifles and overlooking from a tower- pretty terrifying in my memory. (Hopefully this will not happen this time around and there will just be customs agents)
When your turn comes you drive into a chicane with more armed soldiers, who ask where you're going and why. You open the car boot and they inspect your luggage, picnic, tennis rackets, fishing rods and other holiday paraphernalia. They are usually friendly but not always. They send you on you way.
You exit the chicane to find more armed soldiers on the way out.
You breath a huge sigh of relief as you drive away.
Tense drive for 50 minutes through the north as your ROI registration marks you out.
You go through the whole rigmarole again at Strabane.
You spend your holiday thinking about how you have to go through the whole thing again on the way home. I was sometimes able to cajole DF into driving the long way home via Sligo but it added hours onto the journey.

I still have vivid memories of driving through at night and driving behind a truck of soldiers in camouflage with blacked up faces guns at the ready. This would have been mid 90s, I in my was late teens and some of the faces looked about my age. I remember thinking at the time that they looked just as scared as I did. Terrible times, and I was just passing through, I can't imagine living through that on a daily basis.

[sashh]

Sash- smuggling!

Has always happened and always will.

Eve yep I've seen film of it.

[LegoPiecesEverywhere]

If there is no deal a hard border is required but that breaks the GFA. The US has said there will be no trade deal with the U.K. if the GFA is broken. There is no answer. There never was and there never will be.

[Howzaboutye]

Can we tweet this thread to Boris and chums? Show them a sensible knowledgeable discussion about the reality eh.

Otherwise I'm just ~head desk~ about it all.

People will die if there are big border checkpoints.
There will be widespread smuggling.
It is just not an option.

[Peregrina]

But apparently that's not ok. with the DUP, which to May were the only ones who mattered!

[Howzaboutye]

Sash- smuggling!

Theres either a hoofing big wall, or there is free movement of people and goods.

I just don't see any alternative.
if they did a 'technology' solution it would require a lot of money and time to implement it. And that's only for the big hauliers.

The the little companies and people are still ok to move across the border? I can't see that being allowed.

I'm pretty sure the Ire/NI/ boat to Scotland or Wales is the preferred route of the people traffickers.
And the EU is going to want a proper border somewhere.

It makes a lot of sense for the border to be the sea and air ports. But apparently that's not ok.

Madness, as that's the most practical solution.