Brexit party

[Theworldisfullofgs]

I despair, not content with doing Nazi style rally, the Brexit party did what the Nazis did in the Reichstag today in the EU parliament.

Doing a sterling job helping the UK with international relations prior to trade negotiations .

Its shaming.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

It's a good thing that history shows some people have more imagination than just voting the same way they always have eh?

For example Scotland was traditional Labour heartlands, for many generations. Then things changed.

A Scottish Tory is a very rare breed, not often seen in public and I rather suspect will not be happy come the next elections given that the few Tory MPs up here have proven themselves to be self serving rats (Ross Thomson and Douglas Ross anyone?)

Seismic change is needed, politically and societally. We're in a hell of a mess and it's going to take real effort from both politicians and voters to repair the damage.

If it can be repaired at all, because I still think the Union is dead in the water and will be broken up soon.

[LifeContinues]

Might look to be landslides under the seats system, but based on total physical votes the change in way people vote is not so obvious.

The so called Labour landslide in 1997 of 418 seats represented 43% of the vote.

[bellinisurge]

"Some vote for the same party for decades because that is what they have always done."
And yet we have changes of government because people vote differently depending on what their opinion is. Yes we have so-called "safe seats" but there have been plenty of landslide results over the years to show that this isn't as large a number as you think.

[LifeContinues]

All comes down to tradition. Some vote for the same party for decades because that is what they have always done.

[Peregrina]

If the English are daft enough to keep voting Conservative then they deserve what they get.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

The trade deals that the EU and the US have said won't happen?

Or rather the US have said might if the NHS was on the table as a bargaining chip?

Interesting.

[LifeContinues]

So how do they fund their governments? Public services? Secure funding, trade, loans?

Hope the trade deals they think will happen after Brexit actually appear.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Leave the EU as they voted

Well that much was obvious. I meant what comes after that?

Because they'd be pretty isolated in terms of trade, economy and frankly goodwill from many immediate neighbours given the attitude their politicians have taken.

So how do they fund their governments? Public services? Secure funding, trade, loans?

[LifeContinues]

What happens to England and Wales then

Leave the EU as they voted. If they conclude later it was not a good idea they could apply to rejoin the EU. No certainty that EU would accept of course.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Thought ROI wanted NI to reunite or would they object to a referendum?

There's a caveat within the GFA that says a reunification referendum could be held if there was enough public appetite for it. Most people don't really fancy a civil war all over again though, having lived it for long enough.

But if there was one, I think reunification would happen.

So a united Ireland and independent Scotland both with trade agreements and membership of the EU. Lovely.

What happens to England and Wales then?

Because much as I despise Westminster, I don't confuse that with England and Wales and I don't want to see people in England and Wales fucked over by the elite and lies they were told and voted for.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Can you not have a referendum like Scotland?

I'm in Scotland. We did have a referendum, remember? Better Together told us all that voting no to independence was "the only guaranteed way to continue membership of the EU". Cameron said it , right before he caused all this shit.

TM has "blocked" a second referendum.

Oh and NI did have a referendum, to bring in the GFA which took enormous compromise from all sides and demonstrated a clear, commited and determined desire to bring peace and should command huge respect.

Until it doesn't suit Westminster apparently.

So many didn't consider NI or the impact of Brexit on the GFA.

So why should people in NI and Ireland live through the peace they brought in, being ripped to shreds by the British, yet again?

Union my arse.

[LifeContinues]

it would have to be an all-island referendum

Wow. Sounds like NI and ROI are not entirely separate then? Thought ROI wanted NI to reunite or would they object to a referendum?

[Mistigri]

Can you not have a referendum like Scotland?

Under the GFA, of which you are apparently entirely ignorant, it would have to be an all-island referendum.

Another so-called "patriotic" who is itching to destroy the United Kingdom.

[LifeContinues]

Fair enough, let us go then. Where we can actually make our own decisions, and not be the poor relation that has fuck all choice

Can you not have a referendum like Scotland?

[1tisILeClerc]

bellinisurge
Maybe there should be a campaign of recording who all these Brexit party and openly 'leave' people are, because when things go pear shaped you can bet they will slither into the undergrowth.

[bellinisurge]

Passed not past

[bellinisurge]

Just past some campaigners for Brexit Party on the street in a town I was visiting. My "don't show your feelings in public " position was sorely tested. My dh whispered to me that he was torn between ignoring them and calling them fucking wankers to their faces. We both chose the former option . Our daughter was with us.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

LifeContinues so basically it's not a union, it's the biggest country holding all the cards and dragging the rest of us off a cliff we never voted for.

Fair enough, let us go then. Where we can actually make our own decisions, and not be the poor relation that has fuck all choice.

[LifeContinues]

If the Union really was a union, all 4 countries would have an equal say. But we don't.

Can’t see how that would work as it would mean that the a vote cast by someone from a member whose population was the lowest would carry more weight than a vote cast by someone from a member who was from a larger population.

Bit like saying 1 Maltese vote is the same as 200 German votes. Think Germany would accept that?

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

What a disgusting attitude. Minorities should just STFU and let the bigger boys trample all over them?

Isn't it that exact attitude that's brought us to here though? "When all you've known is privilege, equality feels a lot like oppression". The mindset of the British empire is alive and well, and now that the minorites are biting back and saying enough, they don't like it.

If the Union really was a union, all 4 countries would have an equal say. But we don't.

The DUP have some say by way of the deal they made with TM, but they're going directly against the will of the people of NI (who voted overwhelmingly to remain) and Scotland hasn't been considered either. Wales voted to leave but I don't recall them having much say in Westminster at all.

[twofingerstoEverything]

67 million being dictated to by 1.8 Million does not sound very democratic

What a disgusting attitude. Minorities should just STFU and let the bigger boys trample all over them? You need to go away and read up about the Good Friday Agreement.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

67 million being dictated to by 1.8 Million does not sound very democratic

The UK is a union of 4 nations. 1 being the biggest and having the final say is getting really, really fucking old. Especially if you're Irish. You do realise that the people of Northern Ireland lived through British occupation, and will have to deal with very real violence on their streets again without some kind of deal?

But hey, they should just fall in line and do as they're told eh? Just like they always have to.

[bellinisurge]

Again, border in the sea solves this. The EU isn't stopping us having one. Our DUP indulging red lines are stopping us having one.

[LifeContinues]

But if the majority of people in NI don't want No Deal and it has come down to being all about NI- why do it?

NI population =1.8 Million

UK population = 67 Million

67 million being dictated to by 1.8 Million does not sound very democratic

[ragged]

52% voted for "the easiest deal in history."

£350 mln/week for the NHS

"a great deal"

Any "democratic mandate" is for those things, not for crashing out.