Can Scotland stop Brexit, or only delay it? (and would that be useful?)

[DailyMailEthicalFail]

So, after Friday, May says she wont invoke Article 50 until all 'home nations' are happy.
Obviously, Sturgeon says Scotland is not happy (despite a million Scots voting Brexit which was enough in itself to sway the balance).

1st Qu:
However it seems she has gone on to say that Scotland can 'STOP' Brexit.
I thought that the SNP lawyers had been over this immediately after the result and assumed that they couldn't, technically, or would have been speaking about it before now.

So, is there fresh info afoot, or is NS just spouting off?

2nd Qu: would it be useful if Scotland could either stop or delay it?

presumably the Stop would be wildly popular among Bremainers.
but might the delay give time for the rest of Europe to have a re-think and we could hold on in a reformed EU?

Is this what May is hoping for?
ie, stand firm on Brexit but allow NS to be the one to 'prevent' it and then they are both happy?

[akkakk]

That's the thing with the SNP. For years they have been able to (possibly correctly) rail against Westminster. However since they have had power they seem much less keen to put up or shut up.

I think that sums up politics

The reality is it is very easy to find negatives in those in power (when you are the opposition), everyone / every party has negatives, so an opposition party can look strong by picking up the negatives - but to look strong in power by performing is far far more difficult...

sometimes that is why it can be better to have an experienced party / leader in power - they know how to perform even if not perfectly - whereas a less experienced leader / party can suddenly come apart... making promises in opposition is easy - carrying them out can be a little bit more tricky!

[OllyBJolly]

I'm not an SNP supporter but I do think Nicola Sturgeon has managed the whole Brexit debate extremely well. I think if people listened to the actual words said in interviews, rather than how these words are reported, you would agree. (Marr interview yesterday being a case in point!)

I think the fact that the PM visited Scotland on her third day in office speaks volumes about how well regarded Nicola Sturgeon is.

I have a lot of criticisms on how the Scottish education system is being managed and some concerns about the NHS. Having said that , I returned from England three years ago and the NHS is a disaster down there. However shouldn't be a race to the bottom and with such a strong mandate the SNP could have achieved so much more.

I also think that the Westminster SNP contingent has brought a real edge of opposition to the government, something Labour has failed to do.

The 1000 lawyers who wrote to the government re Brexit were not SNP lawyers. They are maintaining that the referendum is only advisory and the positions of Scotland, Gibralter and Northern Ireland must be considered.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/in-full-the-letter-from-1000-lawyers-to-david-cameron-over-eu-referendum-brexit-legality-a7130226.html

[bluebloom]

Akkak right but presumably your village doesn't have its own government, first minister & a recent (close) referendum on whether to leave the UK

[KatherineMumsnet]

We're just going to move this over to the EU ref topic.

[ManonLescaut]

I think Sturgeon is a fantastic leader, if only she were the leader of the Labour party.

Imo May will desperately try to pull her to heel and fail, the Scots will vote for independence, form their own currency and stay in/re-join the EU.

[Itinerary]

I don't want to live in a country where people believe in unwavering support for a political party.

Yes, I agree.

[Corcory]

I think TM is doing exactly the right thing with NS. Letting her have her say and letting her think she will be listened to if she can come up with any concrete plan.
OllyB - the 1000 lawyer thing has been discussed on another thread and it's very questionable whither there is any legal basis for it.
The next things TM and the UK government need to do is show how well the UK can survive out of the EU with lots of countries arranging trade deals etc. (ready to go ahead the min. we are out of the EU)
One of NS's big things during Brexit was that the EU took 40% of Scotland's exports. She's made no mention of it since! Of course not, if Scotland was independent of the rest of the UK who do you think would be our biggest trading partner - the UK! Scotland exports 4 times more goods to the rest of the UK than the whole of the EU and I'm not even counting oil and gas, we export half of our total production to the rest of the UK and she wants to remove us from our actual closest trading partner and a line us with the EU! Why on earth would the rest of the UK give us a free trade agreement then? Oh no but of course we would be part of the EU and the UK may well not get a free trade agreement with the EU. Where would Scotland be then? Up shit creek without a paddle. Who in their right mind is going to vote for indi2 when they realise that.

[ManonLescaut]

I said form their own currency.

[AddToBasket]

Imo May will desperately try to pull her to heel and fail, the Scots will vote for independence, form their own currency and stay in/re-join the EU.

Nah, we won't. We won't because The SNP has no answer to the currency question and no solution is mentioned other sterling. And the truth is some Scots want to tell Westminster to F off but not so much that they want to be outside the EU and the U.K.

[peggyundercrackers]

But 62% of Scotland didn't vote to remain in the EU. Scotland has approx. 4.1 million people registered to vote - only 1.66 million voted to remain, the rest couldn't be arsed. Surly that means only 41% of scots voted to remain NOT 62% as the SNP and the media keep repeating.

[RortyCrankle]

I'm sick of hearing about how they voted blah blah blah. Up until now I have not wanted them to leave the UK but now I wonder if there's any chance England/Wales/NI can have a referendum to leave Scotland?

And whoever said we are not leaving the EU is WRONG.

Sturgeon is stuffed. Economically with oil at rock bottom, there is no way Scotland could survive. Secondly, she will have to join a long list of countries who want to join the EU and countries like Spain with their own separatist movements will be voting against.

Lastly, no way should the way 4 million scots voted, have any effect on the outcome voted by 17 million.

[Iggi999]

All we can ever work with is the number of votes cast. That's the basis of democracy. If people choose not to utilise their vote then they have to accept what the majority of voters went for.

[Sooverthis]

41% voted to remain 59% voted Leave or didn't care NS really should be pulled up on this more

[peggyundercrackers]

I think Sturgeon is a fantastic leader

deluded - she isn't a leader she is a dictator who's downfall will be her belief in herself, she is blinded by her own arrogance.

Imo May will desperately try to pull her to heel and fail, the Scots will vote for independence, form their own currency and stay in/re-join the EU.

Definitely not gonna happen. The people of Scotland wouldn't wear that even though there is a hardcore of SNP supporters. They are loosing support quickly through some of their policies and I think they are struggling just now - I don't think their support is a strong as they believe it is.

[peggyundercrackers]

All we can ever work with is the number of votes cast. That's the basis of democracy. If people choose not to utilise their vote then they have to accept what the majority of voters went for.

I agree with this but the majority of scots didn't vote to leave the EU - to claim this is only something a spin doctor could come up with...

[Corcory]

As for the currency question. Well I seem to remember Alex Salmond making such a big deal out of Scotland keeping the £ if we were independent but of course if you want to be a member of the EU you would have to accept the Euro no question. Alex Salmond is now saying that doesn't matter we will just have the euro! Two faced me thinks. Well I for one still want the £ and I like my Scottish £s thank you very much.
Seems to me that it is independence at absolutely any cost and that all but the most stringent NSP supporters should see that.

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

1. Could Scotland block Brexit? Technically, yes. For Brexit to happen, the repeal of the European Communities Act (1972) is necessary. Power to repeal this Act was partly devolved to the NI Assembly and the Scottish Parliament, and would require a simple majority vote to repeal.
   

The SNP could not block this, as they don't have a majority, but the Parliament could if any other party voted with them against repealing it.

The situation in NI is even more complex, as this legislation was also used to create the Good Friday Agreement, which may have to be scrapped if it's repealed. This would be unlikely to be popular, to put it mildly.

1. Will it be useful to delay/stop Brexit?
   

Too early to tell. The excuse 'The Scots wouldn't let us' would not be popular in England and Wales, quite understandably, but as Brexit could be halted by Scotland or Northern Ireland at least temporarily, it could be used to delay it if it suited the government. If there is an Indyref 2 which leads to independence, England and Wales would have to proceed with Brexit, and if it is a remain vote it will be a mandate for exit for Scotland, and the Scottish Parliament may repeal the E.C. Act. Then the UK would leave together in 2 (ish) years.

It will be interesting to see how long it will actually take.

[ManonLescaut]

Nah, we won't. We won't because The SNP has no answer to the currency question and no solution is mentioned other sterling. And the truth is some Scots want to tell Westminster to F off but not so much that they want to be outside the EU and the U.K.

That's not true. A floating currency pegged to the pound is a possibility. (As Danish currency is pegged to the Euro). It's not without difficulty, but given the economic disadvantages imposed on Scotland by a Brexit, it becomes a more attractive option than it was at the last referendum.

[ManonLescaut]

As to the Scottish population who didn't vote, one can only assume they aren't unhappy enough with the status quo to vote 'leave'.

[Kennington]

Scotland has few allies in the EU who support Scotland as a fully independent country. Belgium and Spain in particular don't want to encourage seperatism at all.
Another referendum on the Scottish question isn't in sturgeons interest now. Even if the scots voted to leave the UK , the rest of Europe wouldn't be too keen on agreeing to have Scotland back in the EU. This is all hot air. I think!

[Iggi999]

Can we remember sometimes that the SNP did not hold a monopoly on people who wanted independence? They were not even the only party wanting independence.

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

That's not entirely the case Kennington.

Spain have explicitly said they will not hear of Scotland remaining in the EU whilst being part of the UK. In 2012 Rajoy said 'No one would object to a consented independence of Scotland'. They would not object to an independent country joining, only a dependent one.

There are a few EU countries with officials who have spoken out in favour of Scotland remaining or being fast tracked into the EU, Ireland, Germany, and Poland.

The UK is one of the largest economies within the EU, and I think most countries would be in favour of trying to keep some of it if they had the opportunity, so it is in their economic interest to let Scotland join the EU.

[akkakk]

Akkak right but presumably your village doesn't have its own government, first minister & a recent (close) referendum on whether to leave the UK

It can be arranged :)

to be fair - Scotland doesn't have a full government either they certainly don't have autonomy

it is important to remember that a lot of Scottish comments by NS and AS before are bluster / media sound bites - no-one in her position can say we will do xyz when they don't have the power to deliver it...

AS saying that with independence Scotland would have Sterling was an absolute nonsense, he had no power to insist on that and it had been made amply clear that it wouldn't happen...

So with NS and her comments that Scotland will take independence and join the EU - nonsense and sound bites, there is no current mandate to become independent - nor does she have the power to even have a second referendum and Westminster had made it clear that it was a one off, so independence won't happen - and if it did there would be no ability to join the EU - the barriers are huge and the EU has made it fairly clear that it won't happen

as for The UK is one of the largest economies within the EU, and I think most countries would be in favour of trying to keep some of it if they had the opportunity, so it is in their economic interest to let Scotland join the EU. Really?! the UK is one of the largest economies in the EU, but that isn't a logical step to wanting to have Scotland in the EU - the financial significance and contribution from the UK is primarily in London, not in Scotland which on its own is really not an attractive proposition!

[Corcory]

But I don't think Scotland would meet the financial criteria to be a member of the EU. Also Scotland is not a net contributor, England is so has little benefit to the EU.