anyone know which brands of kids' trainers are ethical?

[sibdoms]

just that really. I hear that the usual suspects - cica etc - are actually rubbish. But they need to be proper trainers, not hemp and cardboard espadrilles.

[DominiConnor]

Sorry if I muddled, the irony didn't make it across.
My relative has very different values to me.

Homeopathy has been put through clinicial trials, even the BBC admits it, many likns here, a funny one
www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml
The word you're looking for is "failed".
One has to draw a distinction between "herbal" cures, acupuncture, copper bracelets and other over hyped treatments.
These work sometimes, as does shouting at the mentally ill "pull yourself together".
But homeopathy can't work.
There isn't anything there. Nothing, zero.

Copmared to homeopathy crystal healing look quite rational. There are "mysterious rays" that travel through the cosmos. You can concentrate them with crystals.
Saldy medical science knows all about this, it's called "radiation", and except for killing utmours is very very bad for you. Cosmic rays are really bad things to have hit you.

[FillyjonktheSnibbet]

"These work sometimes, as does shouting at the mentally ill "pull yourself together"."



WTF?

Am genuinely at this.

I don't think you understood my point about homeopathy at all, but I really don't want to engage any further with someone who thinks you should shout at people with mental health problems. Bye bye.

[zippitippitoes]

you believe shouting at the mentally ill "pull yourself together" works

dominic you can't expect to be taken seriously when you are so mixed up in your comments. Do you do it on purpose?

[azroc]

I realise that this thread is going off at a tangent, but have to say that homoeopathy is misused and therefore unjustly maligned. Real, Classical Homoeopathy, as rigorously researched by Hahnemann is good. There should be no such thing as "over-the-counter" homoeopathy (which can do harm!) as a remedy has to be chosen because it is the right one for a whole spectrum of symptoms, not just it is rumoured to help with teething or shock or hay fever. When the correct remedy has been identified, the patient should take ONE dose of ONE remedy and nothing else until the remedy has run its course.
I know how good homoeopathy is - I have gone from awful asthma to normal breathing in less than 2 minutes after having taken the correct remedy. The same when I had toothache that was making me cry.
If anybody wants to know more, I am happy to help, but I think this post is long enough!

[zippitippitoes]

and dominic your constant jibes at whole swathes of people is getting really irritating and doesn't contribute anything to a debate

[peachyClair]

I agree with azroc about genuine homeopathy and how different it is to the pop variety.

As for DC, Damn! All those months DH couldn't work, wanted to die etc etc- well why didn't I just tell him to pull himself together? Chemical balance? not at all, my we never even thought of it!

Presume I will get reported for saying F off DC, but will type it anyway- and I suspect anyone who knows our story will understand.

[TheInvisibleFillyjonk]

Think thats a very fair point re homeopathy, azroc. As I say, my concern is that the side effects (not whether it actually works or not-I imagine some remedies do, some don't and this varies person to person anyway-nothing seems to work on me) have not been properly ascertained.

Its the "oh its natural, thus ergo its harmless " arguement which pees me off (mercury? arsenic?)

But agree thats far less of an issue with proper consultations than over-the-counter.

Tbh I know feck all about it, just that taking arnica and so forth doesn't seem to work for me. I like the stimulating body's own defences idea though.

[TheInvisibleFillyjonk]

and thats a most useful post, azroc! Do post a bit more about how it all works. It is interesting.

[DominiConnor]

By "shouting at the mentally ill" I was not advocating it :(. I was giving that as an example of something that makes no sense, but may in some extravagantly rare cicumstance work.
But at least when you shout at someone you are actually doing something. Shouting at leprosy may work for all I know. At least there is a physical mechanism applied to the thing you want to stop.

Homeopathy has no physical mechanism. It can't. There is nothing there. It makes sending rude letters to ingrowing toenailslook positively rational. It's a fraud. Actually it's not a fraud.
They explain what they do, in detail. People get taken in because they want to believe.

[azroc]

Invisible Fillyjonk, I will, but I will make a better job of it if I do it this evening. Currently about to play with ds1, thinking about lunch, preparing to visit castle this afternoon, worrying that dd2 has outgrown her sunhat.... I'll be back!

[scienceteacher]

I'm really uncomfortable with the 'fair trade' movement. If you buy from one supplier, you are denying the other. The one you reject goes from low earnings to nothing. Is that really ethical?

[zippitippitoes]

scienceteacher.. you can only buy your item from one supplier each time surely?

[scienceteacher]

But if I actively choose to buy from someone who is being supported by a fair trade organisation, and don't buy from someone who is 'exploited', then the exploited person doesn't get my business and earns no money from me. He won't be thinking that it is a good thing my money went to a fair trade person instead, when his children go hungry.

[zippitippitoes]

I think the argument is that working practices are raised generally through worker/community based fair trade initiatives, education etc and the local government doesn't actually encourage exploitation

[Gloworm]

isn't the point of fair trade that more of your money goes direct to the worker/farmer etc, provides houses/school/hospital for them?

with the non-fairtrade more of the money lines the owners pockets, and less gets passed on to the workers and their living conditions are crap.

i can post a link to a fairly cool fair trade company, if i can find it.

also I'm pretty sure there are different degrees of fair trade, some will provide fantastic working conditions, others will only provide the least they can get away with to get the fairtrade logo on their products.

(i own a health shop BTW)

[zippitippitoes]

this is quite an interesting site \link{http://www.aworldconnected.org/\ a world connected}

and \link{http://www.ethicaltrade.org/\ ethical trade}

and \link{http://www.sweatshopwatch.org/index.php?s=39\ sweatshop watch}

[azroc]

And I thought H&M were good guys!

[scienceteacher]

That's the point of it, but it means that the exploited worker gets nothing rather than a pittance. I'm sure they would prefer a pittance. They don't have a choice and it's not their fault they haven't been chosen by well-meaning westerners.

[azroc]

Invisible Fillyjonk and anybody else who is interested in homoeopathy, here goes:
I'll take Chamomilla as an example. This is what teething granules are. The general symptoms that would indicate that Chamomilla was needed are: complaints from coffee and teething; face red, one-sided, in spots, with toothache (teething);likes cold drinks; pains unbearable; sweaty/clammy, better for uncovering; worse in the evening, for fresh air, coffee, wind. Great for teething? Well, it's not that simple. There are also emotional/mental symptoms, physical complaints such as type of cough, diarrhoea, earache, fever, flatulence, insomnia, joint pain, labour pains, period problems, teething, toothache and vomiting. There are specific details for each of these symptoms. Obviously, not all symptoms will be evident at the same time. For some teething babies, Chamomilla will be the right remedy, but even then they should only receive one dose, and this should be prescribed by a qualified homoeopath.
The thing that a lot of people don't realise is that if given repeatedly, a remedy "prove itself" which means cause or worsen the symptoms it can cure. Some people can suffer from irritability and sleeplessness if they drink too much chamomile tea. More worryingly, a 6-month-old baby was taken to hospital in a state of collapse. Luckily it was found out that the mother had been giving Chamomilla 6 several times a day for colic since soon after birth, and as soon as the remedy was discontinued for a period of time the child's muscle tone returned. So homoeopathy is effective and does help many people but is not as "safe" as many people believe - e.g. you can't just pop the pills like sweets with no ill effects, and you should always consult a qualified homoeopath - not somebody who says a certain remedy worked for them or a GP who has done a short course in homoeopathy. There are so many remedies and so much to learn about each of them and about the whole principle of homoeopathy.
Any qualified homoeopaths out there? Feel free to explain better than I have!

[TheThreeFillyjonks]

right, does the remedy basically trigger certain things and that differs from person to person? So in person A it might have one effect, in person B it might have another effect? And the body would then fight the effect, and if the effect was sufficiently similar to the symptom, the symptom would go away? (does that make any sense?)

And can it treat my migraines?

[DominiConnor]

Aside from the physical impossiblity of homeopathy working, I am frequently amused by the really quite outstanding level of intelligence ascribed to whatever bengin cosmic force is inmvoked to justify it.

How exactly does it know to be different in different people ? How does it know what to do at all ?

[zippitippitoes]

I suppose you could say the same about peanut allergy and other atopic reactions

the body reacts to a minute dose or application and the effect differs from person to person

[scienceteacher]

I think the point that DC is making is that you dilute the chemical so much, that you can't be sure of having any of it at all in the sample you end up using.

[TheThreeFillyjonks]

I don't think we know that much about how the body works, st! We do know that we can, as zip says, react to miniscule amounts of things, like peanuts for severelly atopic people. Ditto vaccines. "Very little" and "nothing" are concepts that are light years apart, especially, as I'm sure you know, in science.

[zippitippitoes]

It's called nanopharmacology..it is relevant now to research in HIV/aids..

The concept of hoeopathy is that it is tailored to the individual rather than the "traditional" pharmacological approach of a large dose battering a broad spectrum of symptoms in a wide range of people.