Allowance of £23.50

[Whatmonth]

DM is in a nursing home with dementia.
She is self funding.
Her 3 daughters (including me) have POA.
We have been told that she is allowed £23.50 per week for herself.
Is it ok to allocate that money into an account so she has money
for new clothes, hair cut and toiletries. Also she still wants to give
money for birthday presents for her Great Grandchildren.
And money for Christmas gifts for others.
It was only ever £20 per child. Did that since they were born.
They are now teenagers.

[user1471538283]

When my DGM was in a care home each person had a little account with the home. We left about £100 in there at all times and topped it up for her. This gave her some independence and paid for her hair and nails each week and the odd bit of toiletries if we couldn't get them over fast enough. She liked having access to some money. We bought any clothing and any extras she needed/wanted.

For the great grandchildren we agreed with her (in her more lucid moments) that we would give each child a one off payment to cover any further birthdays or Christmases. It wasn't a lot each but it saved her worrying about them all.

She too always but always recognised my DS but sometimes would not recognise me and she saw alot more of me!

[RiverRed]

@Whatmonth

Thank you for all your advice.
We were under the impression that she wasn't allowed to spend more than 23.50 per week silly us.
Plenty of money in her account.
Not sure how much longer she has.
1 month, 1 year or longer.
What a sad end to an interesting life.
Now frail, incontinent, confused, hardly eating unless its cake.
The only ones she knows is the great grandchildren and for some reason my husband.

Must be very tough for you seeing your mum like this but sounds like she has lots of great support from you and your sisters.

[HunterHouser]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-inheritance-tax-due-on-gifts

People can gift to family, friends, charity, for birthdays, weddings, any other reasons per year

More info on www.gov.uk

Spend it before the tax man gets it !

[euff]

Thank you @MereDintofPandiculation I've saved this for future use

[MereDintofPandiculation]

@euff Sorry I don't know how to make it a proper link. It’s very easy. You just put two [ immediately in front of it and two ] after it (no spaces). But if you put a space after it, then some text, and then the two brackets, then the text appears in blue instead of the link when you post it. So you can have, for example “OPG guidance” in blue in your post, and when someone clicks on it it takes them straight to the OPG page.

[Katieandthekids]

@toiletinacupboard

you work hard all your life, career, houses, family and this is how it ends? £23 a week?

FML

I know right. So depressing

[Gemstar2]

Sounds like it’s time to go out and buy your mum the biggest, fanciest Victoria sponge the world has ever seen, OP! Sorry you are going through this - dementia is really heartbreaking to watch 💐

[euff]

@Whatmonth I understand how you feel. It was very hard for us to get our heads around spending DMs money even though it was for her own benefit. We'd be constantly reporting to each other, I bought mum a new pj's today or bought her a the nicer skin barrier cream that the one she gets on prescription! Some families find it very hard and question every penny they spend and feel wrong in doing it and that somebody might challenge them. Others have no such qualms and are at the other extreme.

Here is the address to the OPG guidance on gifts. Sorry I don't know how to make it a proper link.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/giving-gifts-a-guide-for-deputies-and-attorneys

It has guidance on what gifts can be made without going to Court. Your DM wants to give gifts and you can do that for her.

Reasonable gifts to family and friends can be made and they can be more than £20 given her situation. For example, a new DGC is born and she wants to buy something for baby. If she says she wants to buy a pram she can. If she simply wants to buy an outfit or put £10/ £100 in their bank account she can or you can for her. Presents can be for birthdays and Christmas but also christenings and weddings or any customary occasion where she might have made a gift.

If DM wants to help a DC or DGC with something more significant like a house deposit in London you would need to go to Court for their approval. The Court has approved gifts in the millions where the doner was incredibly wealthy.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Yes dad has had to sell his house but he also has the choice to spend more than £23.50 a week on himself if he wishes to. The person in the room next door doesn't have that choice. So far dad has spent £200,000 on his nursing home fees. It doesn’t feel that great a bargain.

[Whatmonth]

@euff thank you.
We have been so careful in not spending mums money to benefit her.
Worried about Christmas and birthday gifts.
Now we realise that we got the wrong end of the stick.
Not to boast but mum has money that would last a very very long time.

[euff]

As many have already said the personal expense allowance is not relevant to you. You can spend as you like for her benefit as long as you aren't depriving her of her assets in order to turn to the LA for funding. You can make her room nice in the care home, you can have subscriptions to papers, flowers, chocolates etc.

Even someone with savings under the threshold for full cost care can spend over the PEA which was £24.90 a couple of years ago. That's what the LA at a minimum have to leave from income. They cannot dictate how savings are spent unless there are concerns regarding deprivation or misuse of funds/ financial abuse etc.

As a pp said there is guidance from the OPG about making gifts. You can absolutely make the gifts you mentioned.

[hatgirl]

@Idratherbepaddleboarding

This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever heard, sorry OP. I’m glad it sounds like your poor mum is “allowed” to spend more than £23.50 a week. It’s awful that some others, who’ve worked all their lives are allowed so little at the end 😢.

It only impacts on people who need the state to pay for all of their care because they haven't got a weekly income high enough to have anything other than the £23.50 disregard left (and any other applicable disregards but that is too complicated to go into here).

People who have 'worked all of their lives' and have a higher income and savings still get the £23.50 disregard as a guaranteed basic minimum weekly spend but realistically they can spend whatever they like out of what is left of their income and savings after paying the care fees as long as it isn't seen as deliberately disposing of their assets.

When people go on about how unfair it is that the person in the room next door doesn't have to pay anything as they have lived on benefits in council housing all their lives but 'dad' has had to sell his house to pay for his this is the reality. Yes dad has had to sell his house but he also has the choice to spend more than £23.50 a week on himself if he wishes to. The person in the room next door doesn't have that choice.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

What a sad end to an interesting life.
Now frail, incontinent, confused, hardly eating unless its cake.
The only ones she knows is the great grandchildren and for some reason my husband As my father has become more incapacitated, he has become more content. If he is warm, comfortable and fed, he is happy. I hope your mother will be able to reach that stage

[Idratherbepaddleboarding]

This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever heard, sorry OP. I’m glad it sounds like your poor mum is “allowed” to spend more than £23.50 a week. It’s awful that some others, who’ve worked all their lives are allowed so little at the end 😢.

[QuintanaRoo]

When my gran was in a similar position, self funding a care home it was decided by the family that I would keep her debit card with access to all her money and when she needed money I’d withdraw cash for her and/or buy toiletries, etc.

I certainly was never told I needed to stick to a certain amount per week but I was under the impression that if it was thought money was being used either for stuff which wasn’t for her or to hide her savings via other bank accounts so she then didn’t have enough to pay the care home then that would be looked into.

I don’t think I ever had power of attorney either……actually I think my brother did and then delegated the day to day stuff to me as I lived closer. Not sure if what we did was officially allowed or not but it worked.

[Whatmonth]

Thank you for all your advice.
We were under the impression that she wasn't allowed to spend more than 23.50 per week silly us.
Plenty of money in her account.
Not sure how much longer she has.
1 month, 1 year or longer.
What a sad end to an interesting life.
Now frail, incontinent, confused, hardly eating unless its cake.
The only ones she knows is the great grandchildren and for some reason my husband.

[Borntobeamum]

When dad died and mum went into a (self funding) care home, by brother and I took over her finances. We both got bank cards and a cheque book.

Id buy all her toiletries, clothes, drinks for the fridge in her room, ready meals that she enjoyed and we also used her card when we took her out for a meal, which is how she got her greatest pleasure. She always asked if there was ‘any money left on dad’s card’ and when I said yes, she said ‘lets use that, he wont mind’.

I also drew cash out for her to have in her purse so she felt more in control.

She’d always been very comfortabley off so she was upset if she didnt have access to money. It was her money after all.

She died in February and today would have been her 91st birthday.

Please hug your mums today if you can x x 💔

[WestendVBroadway]

I think the only thing you need to worry about is spending that could be seen as 'Deprivation of assets'. This would be spending your mother's money so that she would be entitled to social funding. We had similar when my DF went into care home. We were told that he could carry on giving monetary gift for birthday/ Christmas etc, if this is what he had done in the past.

[NerrSnerr]

£20 gifts to grandchildren is absolutely fine, you don't need to consider the allowance as she is self funding.

[hatgirl]

Oh and the OPG is fairly clear on gifts, and what you are suggesting would be seen to be perfectly reasonable.

[hatgirl]

Yep! The social worker has a duty to inform you that any care arranged by the local authority will be subject to financial assessment and that means that all income up to the local authority care home rate will be taken into account EXCEPT for £23.50 a week which is disregarded.

The £23.50 becomes irrelevant if the local authority aren't arranging the care. You can ignore it and just follow the guidelines provided by the Office of the Public Guardian in relation to your duties as a LPOA.

[Whatmonth]

Social worker told us that information when she first came out.
Then when realised mum had money told us that WE had to arrange
a care home and not seen anyone since.
Reading these comments I think we have got it wrong.
We didn't want to spend mums money on the great-grandchildren
if that's not allowed.
I'll let my sisters know it's not against the rules.
It will still only be £20 per child. 10 in total.

[hatgirl]

@Whatmonth

We arranged for mum to go into a home nothing to do with the local authority.
Who didn't want to know as mum has money.
She has enough savings to last for another 10 years with the sale of her house, pensions and her investments.
She is in the later stages of dementia now. Aged 88.
There are enough clothes in her wardrobe.
All we pay out after the care home fees are for hair cuts and toiletries.
Pads are included with the fees.
All she talks about now is the great grandchildren and giving them money to buy comics and sweets ( thinks they are all little)
Funny she remembers their births but not us 3 or our children.

So who has told you she only has an allowance of £23.50?

Because that is entirely a local authority income disregard thing and entirely irrelevant to any other situation involving people self funding their care?

[Whatmonth]

We arranged for mum to go into a home nothing to do with the local authority.
Who didn't want to know as mum has money.
She has enough savings to last for another 10 years with the sale of her house, pensions and her investments.
She is in the later stages of dementia now. Aged 88.
There are enough clothes in her wardrobe.
All we pay out after the care home fees are for hair cuts and toiletries.
Pads are included with the fees.
All she talks about now is the great grandchildren and giving them money to buy comics and sweets ( thinks they are all little)
Funny she remembers their births but not us 3 or our children.

[hatgirl]

The £23.50 isn't for 'needs' though.

technically it's to cover toiletries and extras like hair cuts, chiropody, sweets, wine, fags, new clothes etc.

The allowance has hardly changed in 20 years and obviously really doesn't go very far these days. Especially if you are a smoker.

In theory it should cover the odd small gift to a grandchild, and for some it still does if they don't have big outgoings otherwise.

Just short of £100 a month goes quite a long way if you a bald man who uses 1 bar of soap a month, a new toothbrush when needed and doesn't drink or smoke, and daughter comes and does his toenails and gives him a wet shave when needed.

A lady who wants her hair set once a week, has chiropody come and do her nails and likes a glass of wine after tea isn't going to get much change out of £23.50 a week.