2a,2b,2a SAT results

[Bongobaby]

I'm confused, my 7 year old had his SAT results
back yesterday. But I don't understand if he
has done ok or not. And what 2a,2b and 2a
means? He has a Reading age of 9.5 I take
it that's an age thing is it? And spelling age 8.8.
Can anyone break it down a bit more in laymans
terms!!! Confused!!!

[Cortina]

So one 'test' will have different questions according the level the child is at? I have tests on file, a level 2 and a level 3, one has one set of level 2 questions and the other one set of level 3 questions? There are 'correct' answers for both tests which are given.

For purposes of the SATS test, you take either a level 2 or 3 paper and that's that. No higher level to take?

But I am by no means an expert, just feeling my way, or trying to. .

[Feenie]

In Y2, yes.

But in Y6 the test is different, and measures levels 3 to 5.

Teacher assessment is collated from many sources of evidence, not just tests. The tests have a narrow focus - so the level 3 paper will give you a 'flavour' of the kind of questions an able Y2 child or an average Y5 child can answer comfortably.

[Moondancer64]

I got my sons report today for year 2 and on that it said that a 2a was the expected level to get at the end of year 2. I am confused as I always thought that a 2b was the average. Does it depend upon the individual school?

[Feenie]

No, they are wrong - unless they mean their expected level, as opposed to the national expected level.

[katimini]

Hello all,
New to mumsnet (is that possible?!) so forgive me if I ask stupid questions ;)
Joining the SAT results debate, can I just ask if a "2" or a "3" are higher or lower than a 2a or a 2c etc.. my daughter's are speaking and listening "2" but reading and science "3", with a 2a in writing and maths?? now I am not sure if she has for example gone through 3c, 3b and 3a in reading and science before reaching "3", or the other way around?? or that there are all of 3 sub-levels between a "2" in speaking and listening and a "3" in reading (aren't these very linked?)
(confused, very confused )
any explanations welcome!

[Feenie]

It's all to do with the statutory rules on reporting to parents/LEA/government at the end of key stage 1. Speaking and Listening and Science only have to be graded as a whole broad level judgement. So there isn't any way of knowing what 'kind' of level 2/3 it is, unless you ask, I guess - within school they probably would be sublevelled for their tracking procedures.

Reading, writing and Maths are required to be reported as sublevels.

[katimini]

Thank you Feenie, a lot clearer already! last one though: is reading and writing can be sub-levelled, does a 3 there mean just above 2a or just above 3a?
thank you once again!
ps: why on earth are these so complicated? and why are teachers so secretive about them? - surely talking to one parent does not mean the whole school would automatically know !

[CoinOperatedGirl]

I'm confused, at dd's parents evening at the end of autumn term I'm sure her teacher said she 2 something for maths and a 3c for literacy (year 1). Are these sat levels? Do they take them in year 1? I just assumed they were some kind of teacher assessment, she didn't really explain.

[Feenie]

The levels go up numerically - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and there are sublevels within them (c, b, a).

So ye,a 3 is better than a 2a, but because only a broad level judgement has to be given then you can't tell if it's a 3c, 3b or 3a. So a 3 isn't better than 3c, 3b, 3a - it's the same, but more general and less detailed, ifyswim.

An explanation should be given with the report (and usually is) - otherwise it's about as clear as mud!

[katimini]

Looking at the report again, I get the impression in fact that the school only gives sub levels for level 2,and once the child is supposed to have reached level 3, then it is a general 3 as opposed to a detailed one, which amounts to what you just said. so thanks again for your explanations. I wish there would be some kind of literature accompanying those numbers and this will be my comment to the teacher at some point this week ;)
K.
ps: Coinoperatedgirl: we are talking about the SATS results at the end of year KS1 (year2), but this numbers 2, 3 etc.. amount to the national curriculum level, so pretty much the same thing. level 3c in year 1 (and level2) is very good, so no worries!

[Feenie]

Sorry, coinoperatedgirl, I missed your comment above. Yes, it will be a teacher assessment - all children are teacher assessed constantly from Reception right up to Y6, with the odd test thrown in here and there (among many other things) to back up judgements.

[CoinOperatedGirl]

Thank you feenie and katmini, they don't seem overly fond of explaining these things do they.

[MumInBeds]

Wouldn't it be so much simpler if the levels were planned so they matched the year they were expected to achieved? A L2 in Y2, a L3 in Y3 and so on.

[shouldhavebeenblonde]

what happens if your child hasn't progressed since last year? my ds got 4a for maths and reading at the end of last year and the same again this year. do i need to speak to the teachers about challenging him more? (he's just finishing year 4)

[Feenie]

You need to ask them if this is a teacher assessment, if so why he hasn't made progress this year and what he needs to do next to make progress.

[shouldhavebeenblonde]

they seem to think its ok seeing as he has improved in writing and science

[sausagemummy]

From a teachers point of view, all children from Year 1 on are assessed accoring to APP (Assessing pupil progress) guidelines. These give a picture of objectives that need to be met inorder for a child to be assessed at this level. The tests at the end of year 2 should only really be used as a confirmation of the Teacher Assessment. This involves looking at all the evidence collected over the year to give the childs final level.
You may find this link useful nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/app if you want to find out more. Year 2 also use something called Building a Picture that is along similar lines.

[lisawright2002uk]

My daughter is in the mid of year 4 she recently had her test, 3a for english, 4b for reading & 4c+ for her math. Can any one explain it to me pls. I am a bit worry about her English coz of her result for english is the lowest, is there any advice how can I help her to push her grade to the same level as the rest of the subjects? ( English is not my first language)
Many thanks

[HauntedLittleLunatic]

Lisa - don't worry about that. She is better in some subjects than others but she is better than national average in all subjects.

For example she is currently working at the same level as the average yr6 pupil in reading. I think for English a 3a is average yr5 pupil so still ahead of where she is expected to be.

[pointythings]

I do worry about the feedback some schools give, or rather, don't give. I'm very lucky in that both my DDs' schools (primary and middle, last year of 3-tier here) give very concrete feedback at parents' evenings about what the children need to do to progress, stuff that you can really work with at home. I would be worried about no progress at all between two years, though DD2 did only one sublevel in maths last year (yr3) but did 3 sublevels the year before, so that levels out.

I'd also be worried about schools that said children 'couldn't' go beyond X level at a certain age - a teacher that knows what they are doing (and I have not yet had one that did not!) should be allowed to deliver an accurate assessment, not one that fits in with what the school or the governors want. I have one DD in Yr6, heading for the 5a/6c border in reading and writing, 5a in maths and science, and one DD in Yr4, aiming to his 5C in reading and writing this year - in both cases this is the level they are aspiring to, and they should not be stopped by artificial boundaries. I'm glad their schools agree with me.

[lou2321]

I find the levels confusing and meaningless, my DS1 age 5 (YR1) has a reading age of 10 years 3 months (reading just words test not comprehension), his reading book is a level 3c (lime level) but his reading level on his report is a 2a (I'm assuming this takes into account comprehension, grammar,punctuation etc). (His numeracy is not this high - 1A and writing is 2c so I understand he has scope to progress in these areas)

I not not really understand how Y2 cannot get above a level 3 if DS is already on the last level he can acheive over a year before the end of Yr2.

Do you think we shouldn't really be told levels until the SATs results as it is just confusing and worrying. Any advice from teachers on here would be good.

[bijou3]

Levels at KS1
W: 'Working towards' level 1 - very weak
Level 1: Below average
Level 2c: Just about level 2
Level 2b: A solid level 2
Level 2a: Good skills
Level 3: Excellent - likely to reach level 5 at KS2
Level 4: Amazingly able (and extremely rare)

Tests at Key Stage 2 - Year 6

Levels
U: Below level two
Level 2: Well below the required standard
Level 3: Below average
Level 4: The expected level for most primary children
Level 5: Very able

[lou2321]

Had PE last night and now I am really confused. DS1's teacher completely went against how some other teachers on here have said things will work in year 2/SATS. He said they will be expecting DS will be aiming for a high level 3 for literacy and level 3c at least for numeracy. Is this possible or will he just achieve a level 3 and the teacher will unofficially say whereabouts within level 3 he is?

Also, is the level 3 meaningless at the end of y2 as I have heard many y3 teachers say they never believe a child is that level anyway and rarely are!

[Feenie]

Any Y3 teacher that says that about the Y2 teacher in their own school is talking rubbish, for reasons best known to themselves.

Y2 teachers report a teacher assessment - an assessment completed using many, many sources of evidence and the school's own assessment procedures. Therefore a Y2 teacher will use exactly the same criteria to assess as the Y3 teacher, and is probably even more knowledgable about assessment since they have to do so, so much of it.

There should be plenty of cross school moderation going on, so that all teachers know they are using the same procedures correctly.

I have some sympathy with Y3 teachers in separate junior schools, since some infant schools do not moderate their assessment with junior schools and are under pressure to produce good KS1 teacher assessment results before their Y2 children leave.

I don't really understand your level 3 question re your ds, lou - he will attain those levels and the school is only obliged to report them as a broad level 3. They may choose to report a more detailed sublevel, but that's up to them.

[lou2321]

Thanks Feenie, I think all I meant was that they said he would probably be 3a or 3c etc but I have read on here that they just level it as 3 (not sub level) so you have answered my question, thanks.