Out of interest is there anyone else who thinks that schools do things that should be left to parents?

[hurricane]

Do you object to the following being carried out by appropriate professionals in schools (assuming you are kept informed of these things taking place and results of any tests etc)?

1.) vaccinations (like BCG)
2.) eye tests/ dental checks
3.) PSHE
4.) sex education
5.) cooking classes/ healthy eating
6.) PE

If yes, why?

[colditz]

As for the "I'm alright, Jack" attitude, well maybe if parents were given the chance to perform as parents before state intervention, more would actually show themselves to be perfectly capable. At the moment, we are like the infantilised husbands lifting our feet for the harried wife pushing her hoover letters are not sent seeking our consent, they are sent informing us of the school's intentions, and it's up to us to stop them!

[yurt1]

I don't particularly object to them being offered in school - just hope consent is treated carefully and there isn't an assumption that everyone agrees (i have made it pretty clear on both ds2 and ds3's medical forms for school that they shouldn't receive any).

[yurt1]

I love the fact that they cut ds1's hair in schol. The shcool hairdresser is an absolute godsend. I would also like a mobile shoe shop in his school (not fussed about ds2 and ds3). I like the paed visits in ds1's school as well (although we get invited to those - and I prefer to go - and they will rearrange). Quite happy for things to take place in school but think parents should be invited in for some thing.

[colditz]

My son's height and weight monitoring was not sought consent for, I was informed he is going to be weighed and measured - I have been invited to take him for his MMR booster though, and that's very different.

[yurt1]

Height and weight is done yearly at the paed visit, so I'm there for that....

[pukkapatch]

i dont object to it, but i do feel that sex education should be taught at home.

[hotbot]

yet again,, agree with colditz

[Orinoco]

Message withdrawn

[ChasingSquirrels]

I think the height/weight thing is different though - it isn't YOUR son particularly, it is EVERY rec/yr6 child (well other than those that pull their child).
I agree that vax concent should be positive consent via the return of a completed form rather than implied through the lack of a return.

[ChasingSquirrels]

also competely agree re good and bad foods.

[aintnomountainhighenough]

I agree with colditz and don't mind being asked so that I can say no! I think its fine if the teacher spots a problem with say eyesite or hearing however they should tell the parents.

I think cookery should be done in schools because it is fun not because there are lots of messages to put over. In fact they should make cakes, cakes and perhaps biscuits then more cakes.

[jennifersofia]

We have to get signed parental consent before we can send them to see the school nurse (who only comes in 1x term, and only has time to see a few children that teachers are most concerned about). They then get referred to a specialist hearing clinic, with, of course, the parent informed.
I personally would love it if there was more parental responsibility, and when I said 'I am concerned about little Johnnie's teeth/eyes/hearing the parent would then take the child off immediately to get it seen to. Sadly, this is not the case - I have had to practically frog march a mum and child to the dentist because the child had been crying with toothache for nearly 3 weeks.

[cory]

Presumably, when we talk about vaccinations in school, we are mainly talking about the secondary school ones? Fine with me, I don't suppose my teenager will need me to hold his or her hand.

All the others sound fine to. Health check-ups are certainly useful, my lazy eye was only spotted at a school nurse check-up; neither the teacher nor my parents had realised. Why does everyone assume that height and weight checks would have to be done in front of the whole class- surely the school nurse could see one child at a time? Noone ever told me what the other kids in my class weighed.

We had excellend domestic science and cookery lessons when I went to school, compulsory for both boys and girls. (Also compulsory sewing and woodwork, with trained teachers. Wish my kids had access to something like this, but dd is spending all term going through old SATS papers).

Sex education too; why should they teach other aspects of biology and leave this out? Doesn't stop me from giving all the sex talks I want at home, does it? I don't stop talking about books, just because they read them at school. If parents don't do the sex talk because they've learnt it at school, then how much likelihood is there those particular parents would have done it anyway?

[yurt1]

Why do you think he did it? (just interested in the use of the word 'decided') DS1 does stuff like that sometimes and I have no idea why. He went through a phase of wetting himself, then not really even indicating that he had.

I thought at the time he might be being contrary, or tyring to wind me up (although he usually makes it obvious when he does that) then came across something the other day about catatonia in people with LD's/esp severe autism - and how episodes of catatonia can lead to things like this because the person can't initiate the movements to get to the toilet (if prompted they would do it- it's the initiating of the movement that's the problem). I wondered about that with ds1 as- although he's very physically able and often fast he does get 'stuck' temporarily in movements and sometimes needs prompting to cross thresholds etc. Lorna Wing has done a lot on it- worth a read.

[PrettyCandles]

The only thing I object to on the OP list is 'healthy eating' being 'taught'. Cooking classes are an excellent idea, but I am hacked off at my dc's school for the brainwashing that passes for teaching about healthy eating. It's my job to worry about whether my children are eating well, not the children's job. It's my job to teach them good eating habits, and labeling food in that sweeping way is not the right way to go about it - IMO. However I recognise that not all parents are as wonderful as me (pings halo) and for some children school is the only place that they will learn these important life lessons. I just wish they'd do it differently.

(My LOs are too little for sex ed to be anything major, so I'll reserve opinion on that for the time being. I suspect I'll be OK with it, though may find it a bit too Liberal for my taste.)

[bookwormmum]

.) vaccinations (like BCG) no - my dd has had all her to date but at our drs. I'd prefer to keep it that way. Not done at school.
2.) eye tests/ dental checks yes - I arrange these but I suppose some parents won't bother.
3.) PSHE - no objection
4.) sex education no objection provided I know what they intend to teach them.
5.) cooking classes/ healthy eating - no
6.) PE - definitely no objection!!

If yes, why?

[GodzillasAbominableBumcheek]

I haven't read all the posts - but would anyone else really like to see the return of the nit nurse - and enforced staying off school and giant bottles of de-lousing shampoo for people who don't sort it by themselves (assuming they are able - and if not, they should be helped - i am trying to be pc here).
There are some things that it is better for school to 'assist' with.

I do seem to have taught my kids (so far) much better Sex Ed and manners than school though, and how to have a 'balanced' diet - not just 'healthy this' and 'healthy that' which ultimately ends up with bingeing on sugar the minute an adult's back isturned [nods, knowingly, completely unsupported by fact]

[bookwormmum]

Having skimmed the thread now, I am concerned that foods are being polarised into 'good' and 'bad' whereas most healthy diets are a mixture of both. My dd's school now has a 'confiscation box' where things like crisps or chocolate bars are removed from children's lunchboxes and given back just before hometime. I don't currently send my dd with a packed lunch but if I did, it's up to me to judge if she can have crisps or not one day a week. Removing say a packet of hula hoops could reduce the food total in her box by 1/3 if she had a cheese/ham sandwich to go with it plus a piece of fruit. Surely some 'bad' food is better than none? Some poor children probably only get a bag of crisps for dinner. I wonder what they'd do in that case? . As usual, the sledge-hammer approaches punishes all whilst not really tackling the real problem cases. Let's face it, children can easily go home and forage for junk food at home if they really wanted to.

[bookwormmum]

Another vote for Nitty Norah here

[yurt1]

I was pondering out loud tbh Christie (partly because I'd used words like 'decided' when talking about ds1 then read the catatonia stuff and wondered....) . The Wing stuff on catatonia is worth reading- it's about LD's as well iirc.

[cory]

Cookery lessons and healthy eating doesn't havet to polarise foods into good and evil, though I agree that some teachers (like some journalists/parents etc) do go over the top. When I was at school, we had excellent cooking classes which taught how to keep a family fed and healthy on a budget. The whole emphasis was on the positive, not the negative aspects of eating.

[hurricane]

I think I'd like to return to the idea of these things being done in school IN PRINCIPLE. I can see that it may not always be handled well but don't you think that cookery / healthy eating lessons would be a good thing in principle if done well.

Same thing with vaccinations. Of course you want to be with your pre-school child when having vaccinations when they're too little to understand. I'm talking about the vaccinations which take place at secondary level when frankly it's probably a lot easier and more realistic for the school to get them all BCGd in one go with their peers than it would be for you to have to make an appt, take time off work, take your kids out of schoo, and coax them with lollipops(especially the 13 year olds).

Same thing with medical checks. I appreciate it's not always handled well but can be quite literally a lifesaver for some kids who would otherwise not have real problems picked up. Martianbishop and eyesight just one example.

What I'm asking is are you against these things happening in schools IN PRINCIPLE?

[AuntyThesis]

dont you think that a good parent should do these things?

a good parent will mak sure their child gets enough excersise and eats healthily.

a good parent will take about sex - complimenting the school rather than leaving it to the school

a good parent would organise eye tests and dental check ups

and a good parent shouldnt leave social morality through PHSE to the school.

I object to the way this question was phrased quite frankly. Ofcourse no one could possibly object to those things in their entirity.

but it is hardly the argument being made on the other thread now is it.

the argument i was making is that the parenting of your children is being done through the schools becuase the government cannot and will not put a proper financial investment into the skills pf parents

and then what is so telling is when people say " well if it wasn't done through scfhools, it wouldnt be done

which may be right at this moment in time - but do you not therefre agree that more investment into parenting should take place rather than back door parenting through schools.

then let the schools teach our children things that schools should teach.

let children leave with meaningfuil qualifications and a route to hope for the future - rather than the sound knowledge that a grapefruit is healthier than a chocolate bar and to make sure the air is pinched out of a condom. - which are things a good parent with sound commuication skills with their children should do