How hard is it to get into Alleyns Junior School?

[Poodilicious]

My DD is 3 and we are looking for a great preferably co-ed school to send her to next September. We are considering moving to Dulwich as there are great schools like Alleyns & jags but was wondering how hard they actually are to get into?

2 main questions:

1. If there are hundreds of applicants and only 18 places, what exactly are they looking for? Most kids applying will be bright, so how can they possibly narrow it down to only 18?! Especially when it's so hard to tell with such young children...

1. What are the popular "back-up" choices for the unsuccessful kids? And are they any good?

Really appreciate any advice from mums in the area that have been through this... Really don't want to move to an area based on great schools if there's only a 1 in 10 chance of getting in and no good back ups...

Thank you!

Does anyone know anyone that just did the 4+ at Alleyns? Wondering what the ratio of applicants to places was this year...

I think that single sex schools can attract applicants from a long way (eg I know boys at DPL come from central London, and DC much further), but I should think it's about the same number apply to both Japs and Alleyns - those numbers aren't gospel, just what I heard. Wouldn't surprise me if more than that applied to Alleyns actually - I'm sure it must have been way more than 70 boys.

for 7+ entry then the boys are more catered for because both DC and DPL cover that point.

I would have expected those applying to Alleyn's to also apply to DC and DPL - most wouldn't put all their eggs into one basket unless they had a strong aversion to the other schools.

It must be the single sex thing, as bialystockandbloom said but also would have thought people are more likely to travel to Alleyn's, as there are far fewer highly selective co-eds than single sex.
Any way, I digress (sorry OP)...

OP I don't know numbers for the 4+ at Alleyns but I expect it isn't too far off that of 7+, plus it's a smaller intake. I have no idea really what they look for at 4. We did apply for dd actually at that age, didn't get a place. She was reading & writing at 3 so presumably above average, but very shy then, so probably didn't say a word! All the kids I've known to go at 4 have been pretty outgoing tbh - my impression is that with so many children to see in such a short space of time they can only really judge on first impressions, and can't have a chance to delve too deeply.

If you're thinking of moving to SE London just for schools I definitely wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. As pp said above there are lots of alternatives (not even 'back ups' but good schools in their own right) - Sydenham high, Rosemead, St dunstans (co-ed), oakfield prep, plus good state primaries. And if moving to the area is only dependent on getting in to Alleyns or Japs you could always do the 4+ assessment before moving if that's an option?

Alleyn's does get more applications than JAPS in part at least because it is mixed and parents of boys may well apply to both Alleyn's and DC, and girls to both JAPS and Alleyns.
Our experience of bullying was shared by a number of other parents. It is of course down to the character of the child, some are more susceptable than others. JAPS will suit the more mature girl, who is academic and sporty. It doesn't suit the sensitive, creative child. We didn't find the music to be particularly good. I do not know of one Dulwich parent who has been offered places at both JAPS and Alleyn's who has chosen JAPS over Alleyn's. Having said that, I hear good things about the new head at the JAPS pre-prep, but without other management changes, we would not recommend the school.
The atmosphere at Alleyn's is very different to JAGS or JAPS. Alleyn's tends to choose and suit children who are not just bright but also sociable. At Alleyn's, there is a fair bit of partying in the later teens.

bialystockandbloom thanks so much for the advice. Wow... I can't believe she was reading & writing at 3 & still didn't get in... Such a shame for the quiet ones if that's what happens. Surely they'd want a mix of different personalities rather than all loud & confident? Can I ask where she went instead & does she like it?

Re: moving after finding out, only prob is think that would be in Feb & would miss state school applications in Jan. Other than that it seems like a sensible solution.

Does anyone know how much emphasis is put on nursery references? And are there 'feeder' nurseries in the area which have links & therefore take a high % of the places?

I do not know of one Dulwich parent who has been offered places at both JAPS and Alleyn's who has chosen JAPS over Alleyn's.

Well me, for one

user I'm sorry you and your dd had such a dreadful experience there but I think it's very misleading to imply how awful it is. Every girl I know who's been, current or past, is lovely, and happy there.

Lol at "sociable" - is that like when parents describe their 3yos as "spirited"

OP are you in London atm? Were you planning to move anyway? I think in your position, if you were planning to move to SE London (and budget allows) maybe go ahead, looking within the good state school catchments (the dulwich village infants/junior school is great, plus lots of other perfectly decent state schools in East dulwich, denmark hill, peckham), while also trying for the independents.

I don't think nursery references would be too important. No feeder nurseries afaik but a few pre-preps which concentrate on the 7+ quite intensively - Herne Hill School being the biggest of these. Neither of my dc went there but it has a local reputation for basically being geared up to the Dulwich schools 7+. Also Ducks as a pp said.

Lol at "sociable" - is that like when parents describe their 3yos as "spirited" wink

Asking each school (JAGS and Alleyn's) how many leave to go to the other one at some point in their school career might be... enlightening.

Why the ? I thought the "sociable" comment itself a bit eyebrow raising, given that it insinuates jags girls are, what, unsociable? Not my experience.

What do you think the results would be of that survey then?

The way I read your comment, bialystockandbloom -

"is that like when parents describe their 3yos as "spirited" ?"

is you suggesting that "sociable" is not to be taken at face value: "spirited" very much is seen as a euphemism for "misbehaving/difficult", for example (as I think you know, or it would be a strange comment to make - especially with a !)

I can only conclude you're insinuating that "sociable" is a polite way of saying Alleyn's kids are in some way overly social. I can't think how. My ds's friends of both sexes in the senior school seem well-adjusted and yes, enjoy parties, but certainly not to excess! And while there are, of course, some loud and opinionated kids in the mix, no more than other local schools, I don't think. I just felt you were a little harsh, that's all.

As for the movement question, ds has mentioned several girls across the years who have come in from JAGS. And not particularly confident ones, either. I'd be interested to see if it's a two way thing. It seems to me just one more way to help Poodilicious making her decision about where to apply/what might suit her dd/how settled pupils are in each school.

Good luck, Poodilicious: they are both fantastic schools in their own way, and inspire great loyalty, as you can tell!

There are plenty of quiet, studious children at Alleyn's (and conversely several extrovert party animals at JAGS). There does seem to be more movement from JAGS to Alleyn's but that could just be the lure of boys as most girls' schools lose pupils to co-eds at some point

bialystockandbloom - yes I'm in London already but considering the move from West to SE as it seems like a really lovely area with great schools.

Am I right? Do you all like living there? Is it a good area to bring up kids? Please tell me honestly... Want them to be happy in the area whether they get into Alleyns / Jags or not.

Final question- are most of the good state primaries in Dulwich village area church ones?

Good point, noitsnotteatimeyet!

Op, we really like living in SE London. Crystal Palace, Dulwich park, Horniman Gardens, one tree hill, Beckenham Place park, various swimming pools, Brockwell lido - all great places for kids. Each area has its own character, so it's worth visiting several times to see how you like them. Dulwich is pricey (too pricey for us! ) but you can get easily to lots of nice parks and amenities from there, and the schools are all great, from what I hear. It deliberately tries to cultivate a villagey feel too, with verges and wooden fences and cute signposts, etc. Check out the travel if you need to get into town for work, though, as other areas often have it easier (Overground).

Bialystock - I am puzzled by how someone without any firsthand experience of having a daughter at JAPS could take it upon themselves to describe my account of my daughter's experience at the school as 'very misleading'.

My reference to 'sociable' was to the ordinary meaning of the word. No insinuations. Nor was I implying that there were no sociable girls at JAPS.

Dulwich Hamlet school is a state community school. Also, on the edges in different directions, Rosendale, Goodrich etc.

Bialystock has a daughter at JAPS though so she does have first-hand experience of the school!

There are always going to be a few children who are unhappy in any school but most of the children in the foundation schools are happy and thriving - whether at Alleyns, JAGS or DC because they are all great schools.

That's not my impression. I understood from her posts that she had just accepted an offer.

I have just been through the 9+ with my Son, we applied to DC and Alleyns. We had been told by Alleyns that 9+ is the easiest entry point in terms of number of applicants...however I am told this year they had 50+ for five places! My Son was offered a place which we have accepted (it seems an amazing school). Anyway on the interview day I saw / girls in JAPs uniforms and did wonder why on earth you'd put your kid through it again (when presumably they have already been through an onerous selection process for JAPs)

It's not unusual to change schools - what was right at age 4 may not be so further down the line. I know of those that have switched from JAPS/JAGS to Alleyn's and vice versa, also Alleyn's to DC. Also have heard of (but don't know personally) those that moved from JAGS/Alleyn's to the central London indies. 4-18y is a long time to spend in one school and it's not necessarily a good thing.

This thread might have run its course now, sorry to come back late. But yes sorry, coldandold my dd hasn't started at Japs yet, user is right there. I was referring to the many girls I do know there or have been there, who all seem basically like most of the rest of the girls I know.

user of course I was not questioning your account of your dd's time at Jags. It surprisd me as i haven't heard anything negative about the junior school (though have about the senior school, but then likewise some not wholly positive things about Alleyns either) - and worried me seeing as I've just accepted a place for my dd there. The 'sociable' thing - Alleyns senior school has a reputation for being very competitive socially. Maybe unfairly so, I don't know, but I did bristle a bit when I saw that as a comparison to Jags. Of course I'm not trying to dispute your dd's experience there, it sounds dreadful, but I just can't think this is a true flavour of the whole school - what I think is misleading is the picture you painted of the whole school being full of unsociable, unhappy stressed out girls, and that it not being a choice for local parents. The same could be said for Alleyns, DC and DPL, actually, with that last point.

OP I think this is a very partisan thread, sorry it has been derailed.