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Education

Accents...Should kids be taught to speak proper?

95 replies

Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot · 07/02/2007 23:19

I have been working (as I am sure loads of you know) with kids on a Shakespeare project. NOW....

Some of the kids have really strong accents - and so cannot be understood by many people - what should be done about this if anything?

Is it enough that they are having the experience? Or should we insist that they learn to tone down their accents?

AND should this be something that could be useful in everyday life - not just in theatre - darling?!

Interested in opinions - no judgements here btw - just raising the question.

OP posts:

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summer111 · 08/02/2007 11:03

oops, excuse my typos!

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BandofMothers · 08/02/2007 11:03

I grew up in East Mids but was told I sounded "posh" (I don't) because my mum taught me to speak properly, and by that I mean to pronounce words properly and clearly.
I lived in the States for 6 years and they couldn't understand a lot of what I said. I did end up modifying some words because I got sick of repeating myself.
Sometimes you have to!!!
Perhaps if you slow their speech down it will help. People, esp children, often speak very fast when speaking in public.

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wychbold · 08/02/2007 11:07

Why is it acceptable to have a 'regional' accent but not a 'posh/RP' accent? That's just inverted snobbery.

But, to get back to the original question, I don't think that it is unreasonable to encourage the kids to be intelligible. Isn't that half the point of drama lessons: to enable kids to have the guts to stand up in front of an audience and deliver a speech or presentation. It's a very useful, transferable skill.

I wouldn't bother employing someone who was incomprehensible- there are plenty of others out there who are capable of commmunicating!

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chonky · 08/02/2007 11:10

I have been teased about the way I speak - like tigermoth I've been teased for being posher than I am. I would love personally to have a Scots or Irish accent, however my voice is part of me, and I don't want to be ashamed of it. No-one should be ashamed of how they speak; I spent far too long apologising in my teens at a school in Brum for the way I spoke. It was bl**dy awful.

However, I think that it would be naive to think that in some situations being able to speak with received pronunciation would not be an advantage. I'm not saying that that is right, but I think that sadly in the UK you are judged by the way you speak.

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Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot · 08/02/2007 11:12

summer - I was jesting in my use of 'proper' btw

OP posts:

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CountessDracula · 08/02/2007 11:16

I think that people should be able to speak in a way in which they would be understood by the majority of people (unless you are a 90 year old living in the middle of nowhere who has never left the village type)

I have a scottish friend who has lived in London for 15 years and I still find it hard to understand him sometimes. When I first met him I just used to smile and nod as I didn't have a clue what he was on about!

I don't think people should tone down their original accents but I they do need to have an adapted accent which they are capable of using to make themselves understood. My mother is Australian, you wouldn't know it if you met her here. However as soon as she goes back to Oz she is straight back into it.

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Pinotmum · 08/02/2007 11:22

My dh is from Glasgow and moved to London when he was 24 yo. He has toned his accent down but is still recognised as a Scot. He said people just couldn't understand him. It wasn't the accent alone but some of the words/slang that is used in Glasgow - jag for injection and poke for bag for example. When I speak to his brothers who still live there I haven't a clue half the time and just smile . I was watching Jamie's Chef last night and one of the contenders was talking to his dad who had a south london accent (I think) and there was sub titles underneath . I try to get my children to use the correct grammer but I don't mind accents at all.

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oliveoil · 08/02/2007 11:23

I have a telephone voice, stern and authoratative (sp?), but I don't have a strong accent anyway

I find Scottish accents hard to understand sometimes, especially when I phone Sky (in a bad mood) as their call centres are based there

I think in Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot's () situation, yes, definitely try to get them to tone down their accents

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BandofMothers · 08/02/2007 11:26

Accents are great. I'm half Scottish from my dad's side but have never even been there . My grandad, who passed nearly 2 years ago, had the most beautiful, soft spoken scots accent, and everytime I hear one I want to cry. I love it
Also, actors don't always change their accents. Look at Sean Connery, who purposefully NEVER changes his, even when he's playing a Russian!!

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bundle · 08/02/2007 11:28

I love accents but am quite disapproving of bad grammar ("could of" instead of "could have" etc) which is obviously a different issue. the only accent I find really hard to listen to is Chinese.

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Walnutshell · 08/02/2007 11:30

I suppose to support Expat's pooint, the more we are all exposed to varying accents, the more we understand and accept them.

On a larger scale, I guess that just because life is somewhat easier if everyone is the same, doesn't mean that we should be intolerant of diversity.

That doesn't really help the OP. Hmm, I'll have a think.

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Walnutshell · 08/02/2007 11:31

(I don't know what a pooint is, sounds sharp though)

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summer111 · 08/02/2007 12:51

Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot,
I got that you were jesting but wanted to differentiate between speaking with a posh accent ie 'proper' and speaking grammatically correct English ie 'properly'!

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miljee · 08/02/2007 13:50

Something I found when I returned to the UK after 15 years in Oz was how my patients (I'm in healthcare!) at work weren't actually listening to what I was saying, just how I was saying it! I'd finish an explanation, ask if they had any questions, and they'd immediately ask which part of Oz I came from - then go into complete denial as the procedure commenced and they apparently didn't have a clue what was going on as they hadn't listened to the CONTENT of what I said at all, just my accent! This happened A LOT at first but now, after 4 years here, my accent has returned to RP with the odd flattened vowel as a give away for those who recognise it! This all kind of backs up the remark someone else made earlier about the soothing or lulling tones of strong regional accent - but was there understanding?!

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eviletc · 08/02/2007 14:02

would you correct speech if bad grammar was a part of the regional dialect though? where i am, it would be considered perfectly acceptable to say "where was you to?" for where have you been. or "can you learn me..." for can you teach me?
(guess where i live btw?!)
my mum was very strict on "speaking proper" and although i have lived here all my life, i have no accent to speak of. my dh has also lived here all his life and is capable of altering the way he talks from enunciated and neutral to dialect peppered with local oddities depending on who he is talking to! he claims not to be aware that he does it either!
an interesting thread...and my personal opinion, beetroot, now that i've put in my tuppenceworth, is that speaking clearly in whatever your accent may be should be enough for you to be understood.

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Glassofwine · 08/02/2007 14:10

Ah - this one comes up a lot in the wine household as dh is from Manchester and although he's been down south for many years has retained his accent. He often accuses me of trying to change his accent, but confuses regionality - if there is such a word - with grammar. For example I can't stand it when he says to the dc's 'did you go the loo?' - where is the missing 'to' ? Drives me nuts

I have no desire to change his accent it's part of him, and I don't want to change regional phrases - I love it when he says something is 'bobbins' but bad english is a whole different thing.

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Beetroot · 08/02/2007 14:11

do they say favver for father eviletc?

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marthamoo · 08/02/2007 14:13

Ds1 has started saying "sumfin" and "nuffin". I think it's reasonable for me to beat him with a big stick every time he does it, don't you ?

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eviletc · 08/02/2007 14:16

beety where we are it is a short a - ah instead of ar iyswim, so cahnt' instead of carn't and bahth instead of barth. you would pronounce fah-ther like that, but using "th" not "vv"

confused?

i've always been interested in things like this

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eviletc · 08/02/2007 14:17

ing just read that through (must preview, must preview) it is actually more like an aah sound. so just add another "a" into everything i just wrote

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3rdtriMOSSter · 08/02/2007 14:19

Evil I was thinking the same thing. I remember when I was younger I had a teacher that worried that children with strong scouse accents would spell words the same way they pronounced them (e.g. "I have to do the shopping for me Mum") and constantly corrected her pupils' speech.

IMHO, I think most children know the difference though.

Also agree with Expat / Walnut "the more we are all exposed to varying accents, the more we understand and accept them". I wonder if the BBC move to Manchester will lead to us hearing more Northerners on the national news?

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3andnomore · 08/02/2007 14:20

Hm...not sure really....however, sometimes it can make life harder, I suppose....I mean, I am german, and forinstance I can understand scottish people if they speak english with that sexy scottish accent, but if they speak as if they would to another scot, I can't understand them....
So, in a way, adapting (not loosing)is a lifeskill, I suppose.
But, I suppose really that is my problem not theirs!
As a german though, I do try to be as easily understandable when I speak english, as I possibly can. Trying my hardest, anyway.
Lol, appanrelty I now speak german with teh english intonation, lol....

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3rdtriMOSSter · 08/02/2007 14:24

Glassofwine, I would say "go the loo" and "go the Asda" in speech and in "informal" writing (text / email etc) but if I had to write a letter I would state that I had been to the toilet, and had shopped at Tesco.

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LowFatMilkshake · 08/02/2007 14:27

x-posts

My MIL (who is from London and sounds a bit like Pauline Fowler) says my DD speak 'posh'!
I live in Bucks, not Buckingham 'friggin' Palace and took offence to what she said

My daughter (3) mimics the way I speak I suppose and just because I dont drop my letters all over the place she thinks this is posh

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ipanemagirl · 08/02/2007 14:40

IMO - Yes children must learn to communicate well verbally in more than one languaage if they are to be versatile enough to succeed. Communication is the most important thing in most jobs. Some elocution would transform the life chances of some of this country's children.
My education and upbringing taught me that it was my responsibility to make myself clear and understood.
These days there's almost an attitude that it's the listener's problem if they don't understand! Wrong logic. The speaker loses for the whole of their life if they are not comprehensible imo.
Elocution, public speaking, debating, these should all be essential parts of our education system. The ancient Greeks knew this!