Fee paying schools but not £20K a year kind

[CookieDoughKid]

Can anyone tell me why we don't have fee paying schools where parents can contribute. I can afford £2000 a term (just plucking a realistic figure for me) not £5000 a term. I'm thinking that this would contribute to better facilities, resources, buildings, teachers, IT, books, labs etc. I'd even vote for some kind of entry test and whereby the school could allocate stream classes from day 1 and have 33% of each ability to keep it ''inclusive''. I'm not from the education sector and I don't have any experience in teaching at schools but I think there is a gap where high earning professionals like myself could and want to contribute to a quality school given that there are so few good quality state schools about (especially secondary).

[Gruach]

Tony Little, the newly retired HM of England's most famous public school, agrees with you. Which is why his former school agreed to sponsor Holyport College, a new state boarding school.

In 2014 the average fee charged to parents was some £11,500 pa, a sum that is just about one-third of the fee for the most expensive independent boarding schools.

Is this the kind of thing you mean? (Or did you mean contributing to a random school at which you don't have children?

It seems an innocent aim - but then we have Academy schools ...

[BoboChic]

In France, private schools (which are mostly, but not exclusively, Catholic) do not meet the cost of standard teachers' salaries - the state does. In return, curriculum and class sizes are prescribed.

Private schools are selective on whatever criteria they like - except religion, strangely enough.

[CookieDoughKid]

Oh I see, I didn't realise there is such thing as state boarding schools. I also don't understand why we have some grammar school counties but some that have none. I will read up on the politics and history as soon as I have time but it's just a ridiculous bun fight getting into a good school dependent on your housing situation.

[happygardening]

I don't know if I'm being a bit dozy here are you suggesting a private school where the fees per child start at 6k a year? When you say contribute do you mean means tested contribution? Ultimately a bursary.
A surprising number of independent schools with larger fees are struggling to to fill their vacancies therefore are not that academically selective and stay open if they thought that they could stay open by halving their fees or simply asking for "contributions from potential parents surely they would have done this. It's easy to underestimate how much it costs to run a school. How would an independent school survive if for the majority the fees are only 6k a year. Many people chose independent ed because they believe results are better, (usually due to some degree of selection), classes are smaller, facilities are significantly better, extra curricular activities are better, the last three cost money and very low fees would surely not cover this.
Maybe I'm simply misunderstanding what you're suggesting, sorry if this is the case.

[Parsley1234]

We visited Holyport college on Saturday and it was amazing ! The general consensus of opinion seems to be that a non selective school can turn out great results with great teachers and facilities which If their predictions of 90% a*-c at gases comes to pass June 2017 will pave the way for business models being set up with sponsors such as Eton. The school is a free school catchment 1 mile max but boarding at £12k makes it more affordable than £ 33k. It was very interesting as the mix of children was 30% prep 50% local state and 20% identified as lac .

[happygardening]

There are state boarding schools and I think the fees are means tested? Could be wrong. Some are grammar schools e.g. Sir Roger Manwoods Kent. <a class="break-all" href="//twww.sbsa.org.uk" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Here is the website about them.

[CookieDoughKid]

Ah.. Just looked at the Holyport school and I sort of mean like this school. Looks like we may see more of these kind of schools in the future if independents are struggling?

[Gruach]

Indeed Here's a guru for you OP.

[happygardening]

Unfortunately boarding in either sector will always only appeal to a smallish minority. There are many people with outdated uninformed and ridiculous preconceived ideas about boarding, worst still there happy to hijack every boarding thread to spout their tedious views.

[mummytime]

The issue is: Independent schools get no funding in this country, the most State help they get is the VAT reduction if charitable. That means unlike some other countries they have to find the full cost of educating each child.
The worst funding LAs allocate about £4K per child (the best about twice this). www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/how-much-per-pupil-funding-will-your-school-get
So you need to allow for that, before adding on the extra funding needed for smaller class sizes etc.

[Gruach]

The very most major independents don't appear to be struggling OP - some of them are having to put extra exam hurdles in place to stem the flow of aspiring parents. The rest probably do have to fight to stay open.

You may want to cross reference with this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2484522-Is-Education-for-Sale?msgid=57034705

for a view of how terrifying the market in education is becoming.

[PettsWoodParadise]

Don't some countries have a voucher system. You get a voucher for school education that will fully fund a place in most schools. Some schools however require a top up and so a more modest fee is paid on top. I think Australia has this type of system?

[meditrina]

www.sbsa.org.uk

State boarding is far from new, and Holyport is one of many such schools (just with better PR?). rather than a whole new model.

It is not easy to get boarding places in state schools, as you have to demonstrate 'need' to board. In practice this gives highest priority to Forces families and others posted abroad by the government, those whose need is supported by LEA/SS etc, others with parents abroad or travelling extensively for work, other exceptional family need.

There are some 'no frills' chains of private schools (still heftily expensive in expensive parts of the country though). Have their numbers been increasing?

[Iamnotloobrushphobic]

Prep schools in the North West vary in price from £6k per year to £11k per year and most senior independent schools charge £11k -£12k per year with lots offering part/full bursaries to lower income families. The fees in the North West are very favourable in comparison to most other regions. I can think one good prep school where the fees are under £5k per annum.
£5k is still a lot for many families though.

[jeee]

given that there are so few good quality state schools about (especially secondary).

Have you got children of secondary school age OP? Because actually there are rather a lot of great quality state schools about, especially secondary.

[Gruach]

(Just to clarify - I wasn't trying to give the impression that Holyport is an entirely new model of school - simply that it's a new school. With, as you suggest meditrina a very prominent advocate.)

[meditrina]

Sorry, I rather over-interpreted that!

Wasn't it the GEMS chain that was aiming for lower cost 'no frills' schools?

[thejollygreengiant]

"It is not easy to get boarding places in state schools, as you have to demonstrate 'need' to board"

Really? I would say that the majority of DC's year were ordinary People Like Us - - few postings abroad, forces families ect - - with an awful lot of them living closer to the school than us, the day student!

[Gruach]

I know nothing about GEMS so won't attempt an answer! And I should have pointed out to the OP that State Boarding is already a thing.

Bit disappointed in the SBSA spiel though. I wouldn't choose a school purely because it boasted of cheapness. I'd understood that state boarding schools had a collective USP - offering something that people would want even though there was a cost, and only offering it to those who could demonstrate a particular need. Some of them do sound rather lovely though ...

On the other hand I'm not sure that no frills independent schools are a viable model. As a pp has said, it all costs money and if you cut out the stuff that differentiates private from state it's hard to see what one would be paying for.

[meditrina]

It's possible to both be totally ordinary and have need for boarding!

And even if you're not "ordinary" it might not show IYSWIM. Or the need might be intermittent, but for continuity and stability, the pupil boards throughout.

And of course, exact admissions of course vary between the schools themselves and between year groups in schools. And if places are left over, after all those with defined need, they will be offered to other applicants. It's a bit like RC schools will offer to all Catholics, and remaining places to others: for most schools this means non-Catholics don't get a chance, but others always have some. I suspect that proximity to the big garrisons makes quite a difference to admissions profiles.

[thejollygreengiant]

Are you implying that you have a more detailed knowledge of our school than I do, meditrina?

[mummytime]

thejollygreengiant - I'm not sure which state boarding school your DC go to - but one near me does take majorly if not exclusively from Forces families. It is very highly sought after, and get fabulous results. (Although this year I noticed they had Sixth form places available quite late, not sure why.)

[atticusclaw2]

Fees vary massively around the country.

My DCs attend a selective independent. Very highly rated, always does very well in terms of exam results and won the Sunday Times award recently. Fees for the senior school are around £13-14k. In the junior section around £10k.

[thejollygreengiant]

I can't actually think of any forces families at our school. Goes to show that you can't generalise, about SBS or any other school. So a sweeping "not easy to get into" is not appropriate.

[meditrina]

Nope.

Just some knowledge of the sector, what is typical and the variations within it.

(And I suppose a general stance that people's home circumstances aren't necessarily apparent).