Can you help me sort out my muddled thinking re DS and private senior school entry?

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

He is in year 5. Bright, scientific, good at maths but has a processing issue which means he is not great at English and unlikely ever to be great at English. Gets full extra time. A very charming interesting kid who will interview well - bit of a tendency to be the class clown and maybe not maturing as quickly as others. Current school love him.

Currently at private day school which goes up to year 6 near oxford. Usual exit at 11+ is to MCS and Abingdon with a few to OLA, cokethorpe or other preps for yrs 7and 8.

They say if he gets into Abingdon at 11+ he will do v well there but needs a good day and a good English paper. Borderline.

Otherwise we send him to eg summerfields dragon or cothill to prepare for 13+.

So I'm thinking about 13+ schools to get my ducks in a row. He was put down for Radley at birth so has a place there. I guess that is aspiration all depending on how he matures over the next couple of years. We have close connections with Rugby so he is registered there- I'm guessing that is a pretty safe bet that he will get in there. Both have no pre-test which is helpful as he will be focussing on 11+. Safety choice - school suggested Stowe, I think not. St Edwards? Any others I should think of which are within an hour of oxford and do not involve Catholicism in any shape or form?

Your thoughts much appreciated on all of it - including whether trying for Abingdon at 11+ Followed by a panicked move is the right approach or whether we should bin ideas of 11+ and move him to a prep for 13+ now. In which case Abingdon would probably displace Radley as the aspiration all choice....

Many thanks!

[CatherineofMumbles]

Not familiar with those specific schools, but just to say that my DS2 was completely hopeless at English, was remedial in his primary, but somehow at 11+ did amazingly well in maths and VR and was offered scholarships and exhibitions at all the schools he tried for, went to Colet Court at 11, and is now very happy at St Paul's.
Somehow the other stuff made up for the English - so don't necessarily narrow the field on that basis...

[vixsatis]

school Slightly off topic; but we have lots of experience with the learning support dept at Summer Fields and they're great- mine also has a processing difficulty; but impacting maths rather than English.

No need to make a final choice until Jan before CE: you can stay on as many lists as you like until then

Radley seem to have refined their "down at birth" system- anyone who wasn't in the top two forms (of five) was required to do an informal pre-test to check whether they were on track for 65% at CE- I think (just looking at some of those going) that there is flexibility around this. Personally I was pretty unimpressed by Radley. If he's going to board after 13 then St Edward's may be better than Abingdon because there are more full boarders- Abingdon empties out a bit.

I think Dragon is a bit huge for a prep and some do get lost in the middle. SF or Cothill much cosier

[1805]

So if you want Radley, he'd have to move to a different prep school anyway.
If the school say he has a chance at Ab, then I would think he'd be ok for Radley at 13+.

Disregarding your de's academic ability, what would be your preferred order of schools?

I only know about Ab and Radley I'm afraid.

[SarahJG123]

My son is 11 and has just started at Leckford Place. He loves it and has settled in straight away. The whole school is really friendly and as my son had a few bullying issues (being bullied -not a bully) at his last school and his confidence was at an all time low, Leckford Place was the obvious choice. It is a very nurturing school, which not every child needs. We are delighted with the school so far and already feel part of the School Family, despite living miles away. The school really makes an effort to get to know not just the child, but the parents too and information flows freely between both. The increase in workload from local primary to Secondary has been a bit of a shock for the first week, but I am sure he will learn to cope. I have another son aged 9 at Magdalen Junior School, which is the complete opposite to Leckford, but he is equally happy there and thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread, so my advice would be: find a school to suit your child, not necessarily one that acheives the highest results as your child may struggle and perform worse as a result.

[Shootingatpigeons]

And just to clarify they will make a distinction between a pupil who has accurately made their way through the easier aspects of the paper but struggled when more thought and ability was required and a pupil who has misread questions and made silly mistakes but been able to show they have the ability to think more deeply and laterally when it was required.

[Shootingatpigeons]

Just as a matter of interest are you positive he doesn't have the potential to achieve in English? Specific Learning Difficulties in the normal course of things slow you down, make you prone to making silly errors and make it hard to organise your thoughts etc. but they don't stop you having good thoughts IYSWIM. It may make you less inclined to enjoy English MFL and essay subjects but it doesn't mean you can't. I am dyslexic and my daughter is dyslexic and dyspraxic and she gets extra time but we both have achieved academically in the humanities. She is doing 4 essay subjects at A level and has offers for top unis to read English.

I only comment because we encountered a lot of ignorance at Prep level of the nature of Specific Learning Difficulties, confusing ability with attainment, less in senior school, and had to do a lot of work to support my DD with teaching in learning styles that suited her, at home. You might find that with a specialist tutor your DS may have more potential than you realise or at least can be brought up to a better standard. Don't know the entrance exams for the schools you mention but certainly in the entrance exams for the selective day schools my daughters sat they are looking for potential and ability, and are used to spotting the signs of SpLDs. It might be something you explore if you contact Abingdon.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

He loved all the woodwork and pottery and ICT rooms and the dorms of 8 and the talk of form raids etc...
Eurgh summer ends you may be right. I can see this one being our most expensive kid in terms of school fees... Gulp. Boarding prep almost double day prep which I suppose is the same ratio of boarding senior fees to day senior fees.

Right lots of thinking to do and a few phone calls to Abingdon and maybe Dragon to make next week...

[summerends]

TBH I would be very surprised if they left borderline 11+ candidates with the uncertainty up to CE, not least because you would have to pay two deposits in case the CE was a stumbling block. My feeling is that a lot more boys are trying for MCS and Abingdon hence the greater numbers applying for Abingdon.
Your DS seems to be saying what I think would give him better options, move him sooner rather than later. However if he is excited by the idea of boarding now I suspect he will want to board at 13 and therefore may not want to go to Abingdon. He does sound as though he would fit in well at Radley.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

Yes I think I will go and have a chat next week.
Interestingly I just took DS to look at a local all boys all boarding prep school and when we left I said "what did you think?" And he said "yes, I think I'd like to go there. Can I go next term?" I said "well what about the 11+?" And he said "I'd rather leave it, have a go at boarding and go to Abingdon at 13". I said "but I'd miss you!" and he said "yes I expect you would" with a big grin on his face!

Blimey I wasn't expecting that.

So at least I know he isn't averse to the idea!

[nibs777]

huh...that's very interesting ......both schools are very oversubscribed and selective and given their proximity geography wise probably have an overlap in candidates and seem to be pretty focussed on the academics from what I can tell. But I am sure there is no harm in asking Admissions their opinion..they must often get asked these questions and it is always good to hear it from the horse's mouth.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

No the head of the current prep told me that had happened to a few boys over the years.

I also know that this year after 11+ Abingdon rejected some and invited the rest to interview as normal. After interview they made offers to some and told people they were on a waiting list again as normal. They gave a cut off date for acceptances. After that cut off date they offered some places to boys on the waiting list but ALSO phoned up boys who hadn't been asked to interview after the exam, brought them in to interview and then offered them places - all while others were still on the waiting list (and who never came off it and have gone elsewhere).

So they clearly 1) didn't have enough offers accepted (lost out to MCS who took 20 more than expected) and 2) weren't happy with the quality of their waiting list.

But as I say, I think they got it a bit wrong this year...

[nibs777]

...did Admissions tell you that schoolchoice? I am a bit surprised if that is the case. I wouldn't think a boy who failed pre-test (i.e. failed to get an offer) would be in the same position as someone who has "passed" (i..e competitively) the pre-test as the latter would have definite offer- albeit conditional upon CE.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

Thanks v much everyone. Ok good to know you can have a fallback option. if necessary. Yes I'm not making 1st choices now but looking ahead to try and understand how things might work.

I understand that if you fail Abingdon at 11+ they will not require you to sit the 13+ pretest but will tell you either that you can sit CE (ie they think your kid may mature sufficiently to get in at 13) or they can't (they think he is a no-hoper).

Presumably if they say "sit CE" you are in the same position then as someone who has passed the pretest...

[summerends]

schoolchoice if you move to one of the prep schools you mention (or Abingdon prep school?) then they are experienced enough to be able to advise you with a fair amount of certainty what school your DS should take CE for and that choice does n't have to be made until year 8. As 1805 says, if he is borderline for CE at a more aspirational school then there is a pre decided fallback option. If he gets through the Abingdon pretest for year 9 entry he should have no problem with the CE.
As you say, obviously your present school wants to keep him until the end of year 6. It might be worth asking Abingdon whether it is possible to retry for year 9 entry if your DS fails the year 7 entry or if they discourage that. If the latter then that might push you to leaving the pretest until year 7 (for year 9 entry) and moving him perhaps even for year 6 to the other prep schools

[1805]

As far as CE is concerned, I thought it was marked by school choice no 1, then if you don't meet their target, then they pass the paper on to school no 2 and so on. Then you receive an offer from whichever school passed the pupil.
I don't know where I've got that info from though - I may be making it up!!!

So, if I understand, you want Abingdon really, but are not sure whether he'll pass, then Rugby?? And Radley as a safety school??

[nibs777]

sorry but why do you have to nominate a first choice at this stage? He can do Abingdon pre-test without nominating any first choice and anyway but don't the others on your list without pre-rests make an offer based on head's report and interview before CE and then it's down to passing the common entrance exam with a certain % (assume by then you would have had a conditional offer?)

I may have missed something as we only applied to schools with pre-tests so you pretty much know in year 6.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

Hmm yes
So if I move him to a prep and let's say:

1. He has a place at a radley without a pretest (put down at birth)
   
2. He has a place at St Edwards without a pretest (they don't do one)
   
3. He has a place at Rugby without really a pretest just an interview
   
4. He fails the Abingdon pretest so that's out the window
   

Then how does it work? I have to nominate a 1st choice - say Radley. He sits common entrance - let's say he fails to get in. What do I do then? Do I phone Rugby and say "I know I said we wanted to go to Radley but they don't want him- will you take him please?" ? Won't they be busy sending offers to those who did put Rugby first?

[nibs777]

also don't forget that even for year 9 entry - the vast majority of academically selective schools are really now doing their selection in year 6 or 7 with a narrower pre-test of English, Maths and Reasoning, the common entrance in year 8 with its much wider range of subjects if you are going for entry into year 9 is really just a qualifying exam (with certain schools asking for higher level papers and pass marks), whereas the real competition and selection will have already been done at year 6 or 7 pre-test stage.

[nibs777]

i am not intending to worry you, I just put it there so you don't underestimate it ..it may be narrower as a test but the competition may be just as fierce and at the end of the day it is a competitive exam ...it is worth discussing that aspect with registrar.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

That's interesting nibs. I think of 13+ as a trickier exam as it covers so much more ground but of course (a) that narrower exam is easy for everyone to prep extensively for as you say and (b) he would have more time to mature which I think he needs and (c)lots of people at 13+ are aiming at selective boarding schools.

This is driving me further towards a conversation with the ab registrar isn't it. Because the current school says "stay with us and have a go at 11+" and the prep school says "come to us ASAP and try at 13" and of course they both would say that wouldn't they!!

[nibs777]

Be careful OP in assuming that entry at 11 is easier than 13...I don't think it is, as a lot of those applying at 11 for either MCS or Abingdon would have prepped for months and both are very oversubscribed and MCS has always been very academically selective and Abingdon increasingly so.

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

So maybe I should look at Leckford. Except my DS is v sporty and energetic and it is a city school. But worth a look perhaps...

[schoolchoicesdrivingmecrazy]

At 11+ this year Abingdon raised the bar considerably and didn't even offer interviews to children who were subsequently offered places at MCS, INCLUDING some with older siblings at Ab where Ab was their 1st choice. I can't think of another year in the last 5 years where MCS offered a number of places to kids rejected by Abingdon. This year was particularly large and boy-heavy locally and it may be that Abingdon just misjudged it. I'm hopeful the bar will come down a bit next year but who knows...

Amongst those boys who didn't get either (or who only sat for an not MCS and didn't get it) the more popular and dare I say intelligent choice seemed to be Leckford Place rather than Cokethorpe. Again that is a change - Leckford seems to be doing v well at the moment. Junior part if d'oeverbroeks.

[happygardening]

From what I've heard (all anecdotal) MCS and Abingdon were enormously over subscribed this year and many excellent candidates didn't get it. These then applied to Cokethorpe this has had a knock on effect for the less academic whose first choice was Cokethorpe they are now having to find an alternative because the head admits he's selecting on a academic criteria only. Could be rubbish but 2/3 friends have independently told me the same story, their not overly academic children can't get a place at Cokethorpe and so their looking at Kingham Hill/Bloxham.

[summerends]

From what I've heard about the Dragon, it remains an exciting school to be at in the top two years and joiners don't get lost at all although some wish they had joined earlier for other reasons.
Going back to one of the original suggestions why don't you have a meeting with the Abingdon head of admissions (or head) armed with your DS's info and ask her frank advice about your DS's chances of admission at year 7 or year 9. Are year 9 admissions more competitive or are they just more geared for prep school preparation rather than state primary schools?