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Original poster

Church of England wants better RE

187 replies

MuswellHillDad · 05/10/2013 21:09

"Church of England attacks Michael Gove over state of religious education"

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/05/church-attacks-gove-religious-education-schools

As an atheist, I'm delighted that RE is being squashed out of the curriculum and that kids leave school seeing religion as a "mystery".

Why can't churches keep out of school? I don't want Scientologists there or the Pope.

Discuss

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 07/10/2013 12:01

In your case Muswellhilldad, you chose to send your DCs to a church school, so it stands to reason that they will receive a faith based education. I am Confused as to why you did this when you oppose what they do.

ReallyTired · 07/10/2013 12:02

I don't think that RE lessons are going to go away. Surely humanists are better off campaigning for balanced RE lessons to be provided by law. Ie. learn what festivals and beliefs that different groups have. I am glad that my children are in schools that follow the Hertfordshire agreed curriculum for RE. The primary RE curriculum has been well thought out and my son learnt about all the major religions. Prehaps the Hertfordshire agreed curriculum should be a legal requirement in all schools.

It doesnt' say much about the strength of beliefs people have if they seriously think that an RE lesson once a week can indoctinate a child.

mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:05

It doesn't have to have an RE wrapper upon it but taught well, RE can encompass all of them and it is interesting for pupils to see how religions have addressed these aspects of Human existence. Take Syria for example. There's an important example of how colonialism, the imposition of political and geographical borders and religion have all come together in a big theoretical and actual car crash. Yes, you can address RE in other subjects but I see that as problematic as merging the Humanities into one lesson or teaching two languages in one class. Studying a subject pure gives greater scope for knowledge. Then you can apply it across the educational timetable.

Agnosticism and Atheism have their place within RE too.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:12

mignonette

I agree that merging so many topics into one is problematic. RE trying to cover topics that are worthy of their own class is problematic then. Especially when RE is a subset of those topics. RE is a subset of history, philosophy, ethics.

OP posts:
Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:17

DioneTheDiabolist

I was trying to keep the post away from my personal circumstances, but failed. I only bring up my experience to counter those who bring up theirs to illustrate inconsistency and variety. I don't think I need to explain the choices we made being inconsistent with my beliefs. I don't claim autonomy and unilateral right to make decisions in our family. Do you?

OP posts:
mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:19

RE is not necessarily trying to cover Geography, History, Philosophy etc, rather it encompasses these subjects. I think you are taking what I write a bit literally Smile.

RE is not a subset of history any more than history is a subset of another subject or Politics is a subset of history.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:31

I know - a bit literal, semantic and pedantic. Bit still RE doesn't "encompass" History, it's part of it. RE doesn't "encompass" philosophy, it's part of it's legacy.

Sorry, I just can't help myself - petty, but important to me Smile

OP posts:
mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:34

But history is also part of RE. Philosophy is also part of RE's legacy

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:34

If the curriculum could guarantee that RE would be included in History and other topics and the RE class could be replaced with Critical Thinking, then I'd be happy.

Would anyone here like to see RE "encompassed" elsewhere and replaced with Critical Thinking?

OP posts:
mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:36

Critical thinking is worked into most subjects though. For example Historiography is part of History.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:36

No, just because RE has history and is part of history, doesn't make it encompass history.

Sorry to continue the pedantry, but history is not a subset of RE.

Smile Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:38

So if you are happy with Critical Thinking, crucial life skill, being part of other subjects then surely you'd be happy with RE .... OK, OK I know what you're going to say .... Wink

OP posts:
mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:38

I would say that RE does encircle history. Whether we like it or not or agree upon how it circles it. It is both circle and fulcrum sadly.

KatyPutTheCuttleOn · 07/10/2013 12:41

As an atheist, or perhaps agnostic, I'm not going to be campaigning for RE lessons in school. That said I do think it is important for children to learn it as it is a historical subject as well as a religious one - even if you don't believe in the miracles and so on it is still the case that there was a bloke called Jesus who did stuff, some of which was considered to be a miracle and I reckon the bible does give some interesting insights into how people were in the past.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:42

"I would say that RE does encircle history"

So we don't need History classes then as its covered in RE? Let's replace History with Critical Thinking then? Biscuit

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 07/10/2013 12:42

It is precisely because you keep giving examples of your experience with your DC's school that I have asked you about it. If I strongly objected to the ethos of a particular school, I would not send my DC there.

mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:44

Why the biscuit? That's not very nice.

You are not really getting what I am saying I think so am bowing out of the debate.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:45

Thanks KatyPutTheCuttleOn. I was feeling like the Lone Ranger until you showed up.

OP posts:
mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:46

BTW I am an atheist.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:47

mignonette, sorry if that was deemed offensive. It's listed as No Comment in the smileys list and wasn't meant to be offensive. I was enjoying our debate. Not sure we were ever going to agree though.

OP posts:
mignonette · 07/10/2013 12:49

OK Muswell Have just been tortured at the dentist an hour ago (nine injections and still not numb enough) so the thought of gnawing on a biscuit was the last straw Smile

Yes, agree to disagree I think.

alemci · 07/10/2013 12:53

It does make it very difficult in history when you are trying to discuss Henry VIII and the destruction of the monasteries. Lack of knowledge about protestants and catholic differences and about christianity which is part of our history and heritage makes it harder.

The reformation is a very important turning point in English history and the moving away from Rome.

Also I think christianity gives insight into british culture to some extent.

ouryve · 07/10/2013 12:54

As an atheist, I'm delighted that RE is being squashed out of the curriculum and that kids leave school seeing religion as a "mystery".

As an atheist, I would rather there was no mystery involved with religion. Children need to grow up with an informed understanding of the religion and culture of those around them so that there is no room for ill informed prejudice or misconceptions. You only need to look at the US to see the result of keeping other people's beliefs a mystery.

Original poster
MuswellHillDad · 07/10/2013 12:55

DioneTheDiabolist Fair enough. The decision was not mine alone and I make compromises even when I feel strongly on something.

OP posts:
ReallyTired · 07/10/2013 12:55

RE lessons work well at many schools and many parents of all creeds ar happy with the arrangements made at lots of community schools. Why break something that doesn't need fixing?

Surely its better spread good practice across the coutnry.