Anyone backpedalled on pushy parenting and changed course?

[AnnaBBB]

Am having real second thoughts about applying for highly selective /academic senior schools for DS even though he is quite academic ....... I feel already there is too much teaching is to the test and confess I have contributed to that pressure at home too in an effort to improve his shot at getting into these schools ....but there seems to be little creativity in it all ....I am wondering if it is having the opposite effect of fostering a genuine joy of learning, and the prospect of having him spend several more years of being hothoused at senior school and then having to follow that through at home to keep up in a highly competitive place where everyone needs to get A * or they feel a failure could backfire... the constant testing even at 9/10 years old is making him lose perspective of what he really used to love about a subject and he is starting to question the point of it all. Am curious if others having got into these highly selective schools (aka intensely competitive exam factories/hot houses), regretted it and then pulled their DCs out for similar reasons. Plus you read stories of child geniuses whose parents hothoused them even giving up their own jobs to home school (so effectively 1:1 tutoring) who then grow up to say they feel they lost their childhood and would never put their own children through it (Ruth Lawrence for one). Is it really worth it in the end?

[wordfactory]

anna I think the diffeence is resources.

The top independent schools can take each pupil on a case by case basis. They can work out exactly what would benefit each pupil. Early for this, not for that, extension work for x,y,z.

They have the teachers and the space in the timetable to make it work.

State super selectives, can't do that. So they make a decision that the majority will benefit from the full cohort sitting in year 10. And you have to hand it to schools like Colyton, they are offereing a fabulous education and their system seems to work very well indeed!

[poppydoppy]

I wonder what happens to all these bright children once they're at Uni. Are they bored there if theyre not tested all the time?

[wordfactory]

poppy no !!!

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Bonsoir I only know about DS's school, which is an 11-16 comp. Some of the kids give up French, some of them do AS, then give up, some do AS and A level. Same with maths (with the addition that some do additional maths GCSE instead of going on to AS or A). The school has links with the FE college and the local RG University, so for individual kids they can if they wish slightly tailor their experiences. However. AIUI most of the kids give French up after GCSE.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

poppy what happens to all the incredibly bright kids at your DD's school who are already doing A level stuff in Y10? In particular, what will they do if the syllabus changes?

[Bonsoir]

So there are DC giving up MFL learning aged 14 - even though they are presumably bright DC to have done a GCSE two years early?

See, I don't think that that is in any shape or form a good use of educational resources - three years of French at secondary school, and then nothing.

[AnnaBBB]

i agree with Tony Little, Eton's head, who would prefer to scrap exams altogether until children are 18 concentrating on enrichment and extra curricular until then ...I guess I just resent how much focus there is on test after test after test ...when education at 11- 18 should be about so much more than that.

And I don't think sitting them all early gets you any particular advantage Oxbridge or otherwise - it wasn't my opinion - I pasted from Cambridge website, although one or two sat early might make sense if you want to do more at 16 or do further maths at AS level then

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Bonsoir No, as I said above they have to do at least one out of German and Spanish, for GCSE in Y11, they can do both, and if they want they can do an additional one on top of that (don't know what it is though, DS not old enough yet for it to be relevant and since he's a triple science maths person it's unlikely to be relevant).

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Bonsoir it's a language specialist school, it's been rated very highly for its language teaching. It's just not a FRENCH specialist school.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Anna By doing 12 GCSEs in Y10, the kids are freed up to do 4 or 5 A levels, plus critical thinking, general studies and the EPQ during their 3 year sixth form. The school believes that this is a Good Thing. Feedback from universities is that they agree. Destinations from the school are broadly speaking, outstanding (actually personally, I feel they place WAY too much emphasis on medicine in particular and science in general but that's just me). As I said, for Oxbridge, the school is one of the very top state schools in the most recently released government data so clearly they aren't disadvantaging the pupils. Me, I went to cambridge from a comp, I did my O levels in the 5th form and my A levels in 6 upper and I didn't do general studies or anything fancy like S levels because as far as my school was concerned they didn't exist. And it didn't hold me bad. Clearly, there are as many ways to skin onions as there are onions. But comparing DD1's school experience to mine, in terms of boredom thresholds, hers is MILES better. In some other ways mine was probably better.

[Bonsoir]

But what on earth is the point of doing three years of French and then following that with two years of German (or Spanish)? Languages are not retained when they are learned quickly and then not used - it is a far better use of language resources to do two for fewer hours per week over a longer period than to do two consecutively, in the way you describe.

[poppydoppy]

Russians.

The only difference is that DD has not been doing GCSEs from the age of 13 to 16. She has been enjoying herself and focusing on hobbies rather than revising for the last 3 years.

Her school uses A level as a guide they don't follow the curriculum to the T its more applying their knowledge into longer mathematical problems in maths (for example)

[wordfactory]

DS most certainly would not be allowedto sit early and then just give up the subject.

The idea is to get the iritant of the exam out of the way, to enhance the timetable.

That said, at my neice and nephew's comp, they sit early and then resit and resit and resit to boost passes. Utterly cynical and horrible.

And if they happen to pass in year 10, they can give up! On pretty much any subject!!

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Bonsoir - they have also been doing German since Y7 and Spanish since Y8. You might just as easily say 'what is the point in doing 3 years of French' and I would completely agree. French is a useless language. German and Spanish are both slightly more useful, Chinese dialects would be the most useful if they were taught properly here but apparently (my Chinese colleagues tell me) they really aren't. Kids learn French because kids have been learning French since heaven knows when. You are right - there is not point to it or use in it.

However - please note that I did not design the system nor am I defending it. I am merely reporting what they do since someone asked.

If I had my way nobody would learn French. Everyone would learn German and Spanish and we would sort out proper Chinese dialect teaching in this country.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Poppy I can assure you that neither my DD1 nor any of her friends has been 'revising for the last 3 years'.

That's kind of the point.

[wordfactory]

I couldn't hand on heart say DS had been revising for three months! ...

[Bonsoir]

I think everybody with a modicum of intelligence should learn French, German, Spanish, Italian and Chinese. And it's perfectly possible!

[poppydoppy]

If a child is taking GCSEs in year 9, 10 and 11 how can they do that without some sort of revision?

[Bonsoir]

wordfactory - at your DS's school, what syllabus do they use thereafter if DC pass their GCSE in Y9?

[wordfactory]

Bonsoir the idea is that DS will start two brand new subjects, in year 10 (he's just dipping his toes in now).

And for the MFL and Latin which he has sat now, he will begin the AS syllabus (though because he won't sit any AS levels early, much of the syllabus will be class led, as there's no hurry. So it's already been decided by the group that they will study some film in the MFL for example)...

[AnnaBBB]

Ok - I looked up the stats - Colyton is 10% Oxbridge and yes that's up there for state school stats ...but another selective state, Reading Grammar is 16%...(and as far as I know it does not adopt the whole cohort sits all at year 10 approach to avoid them being bored because they are so bright) ...I don't know either school at all really and it's horses for courses I guess ...but 10% Oxbridge is what I would expect a superselective state to get and it's a far lower percentage than the top indies who also don't have that approach. My objection is that somehow, the implication is that sitting them all in year 10 is the right thing to do for a bright child and gives them an advantage ...for me again that is focussing on acceleration and not depth in education...but perhaps you are right...they get them out of the way and then do that later, It also depends on how all rounded your child is, many bright sparks excel at some subjects but are just above average at others ...making them sit some a year early because the whole cohort is forced to is not to their benefit

[wordfactory]

anna why worry?

YOu can choose a school that doesn't sit early!!!

Why insist that Colyton has it wrong?

[Bonsoir]

wordfactory - and how many hours a week of classroom time + homework will he get for that MFL in which he has already taken his GCSE? Does he carry on for two years and then decide whether he is going to pursue it in Y12/13?

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

poppy which child is taking GCSEs in Ys 9, 10 and 11?

At DD1's school, they take ALL their GCSEs in Y10. Terminal exams, the lot of them.

At DS's school which is a very different pack of cards, they all (practically) do French in Y9 (terminally), then most of the kids do all the rest in Y11. These will be terminal exams also. They do not have a resit culture. A small number of kids may do maths in Y10. A small number of people may do AS or AS and A level French in Ys 10 and 11 but it's not huge numbers.

There are I think some non academic kids who do BTEC sort of things and I don't know how that works. This would be the same in any comp though surely?

[wordfactory]

Bonsoir I don't know exactly to be honest.

Less time and homework than for the subjects in which he still has GCSEs to sit, I think, but enough to make it more than keeping his hand in.

He doesn't have to take either on to AS level proper if he doesn't want to. The school accept that he's only 13 with few plans yet ...

The situation has arisen because he arrived this year very well prepped in the MFL and Latin, curtesy of his prep school who had really accelerated them...and this coupled with a desire to take some new subjects expedited matters.

He's not alone though. There are a little gang in the same boat.