Term-time absences banned by Gove? Have you heard anything?

[FantasticDay]

Just that really. A colleagues had heard that all schools had received a letter from the Education Minister saying that term-time absences were not to be authorised. I wondered if any of school staff on here could confirm /deny? Cheers.

[lalalonglegs]

Is this unauthorised holidays extended to academies as well? My children are at a school where the classes are practically empty after the middle of July, many of the parents are European and go back to their home countries for the summer, but it's a very high-achieving school and the teachers don't seem to mind terribly. Are they allowed greater say because the school has academy status and, if HTs want to improve attendance statistics, surely they are better off authorising holiday absenses rather than flagging them up as unauthorised?

[infamouspoo]

This seems so variable. At ds's school the last HT bent over backwards asking me if we wanted to take ds on holiday during term time, it wouldnt be a problem, any time we liked. He said it so often I started to get a complex about ds's behaviour! The new HT can be an arse about hospice stays ffs (ds isnt expected to live very long hence we get 14 nights a year at a hospice. There's more chance of getting a chunk of nights during term time and you're only alowed 5 'nights' at weekends or school holidays in total) so I take them anyway rather than lose them. Guess they will be 'unauthorised' from september.

[rabbitstew]

prh47bridge - you didn't answer the question you quoted. Plenty of HTs actually USE COMMON SENSE and permit holidays in certain circumstances, meaning they are NOT unauthorised absences. And I wouldn't be remotely surprised if thousands of parents take their children off on holiday without being honest about it, particularly if the holiday only takes up a couple of days of term time and the rest is during the holiday. I know for a fact my children's school has never issued a penalty notice on anyone, nor has the LA on their behalf, and it has permitted plenty of parents to take their children on term time holidays, following a review of the children's attendance record (if attendance is already below, or would fall below a certain % then no holiday would be authorised), behaviour and academic achievement (ie whether they are likely GENUINELY to suffer academically if taken out of school). I can see that at secondary school, a stricter approach is necessary, but at primary school, I really don't think every child will fall irretrievably behind if they have a few days out of school and it's ridiculous to behave as though they will.

[rabbitstew]

Unauthorised absences are not all for holidays, either... I don't think regularly truanting counts as a holiday.

[prh47bridge]

No, but your posts seem to be suggesting that parents are unlikely to get a penalty notice if they take their children for an unauthorised holiday and can ignore any notice they do get.

For what it is worth the most recent statistics show that two thirds of absences due to holidays in term time are unapproved.

It is true that some LAs are reluctant to use penalty notices. On the other hand some are very enthusiastic. Kent, for example, issued nearly 3,500 penalty notices in 2011/12.

[rabbitstew]

I make no such suggestion, just make the point that the people who are actually harming their children's education are also highly likely to be the people who will ignore penalty notices. And those whose children's education is not being harmed by going on a family holiday are not likely to get a penalty notice in the first place. Your posts seem to suggest that penalty notices are being handed out willy nilly without any common sense utilised.

At our school, given that holidays often are authorised, there is a high degree of parental honesty, because parents expect their requests to be treated fairly. What a shame to mess all that up with a change of law that imo will have no beneficial effect whatsoever in my children's school, but might well just increase the proportion of liars. Treat everyone like a feckless moron and they usually live down to expectations.

[rabbitstew]

I can see why some LAs would be enthusiastic about handing out penalty notices - if you hand them out to as many people as possible, you get a nice income stream to help pay for the penalty notices that you have to chase up. It's got little to do with educational benefit v harm, though, if you treat it that way.

[mignonette]

Any fine would have to be on a par with the savings made by taking a child on holiday during term time.

[TheDoctrineOfAllan]

If you believe that attendance is a key factor in educational achievement, why wouldn't issuing penalty notices be to do with educational benefit?

[Growlithe]

infamouspoo surely your DS's case is an exceptional one? Your previous HT obviously had the right idea there. Although of course every child should go to school, there is more to life isn't there?

[Theas18]

Coming late to this. Newferry and other parents wit kids involed in outside activities that may occur in school hours.

there is an " educated off site" code that is appropriate for educational activity such as the dramafestival ( or in my kids cases, schools music service events)

[rabbitstew]

I think parental attitude to education is a key factor in educational attainment and some parents who set a very high store by education nevertheless think that it is sometimes more educational, or of no long term educational harm, to take their children out of school during term time to do something else once or twice in their school lives. Maybe that's a sign schools aren't educational enough?!...

[rabbitstew]

Basically, it's the idea that all parents who have taken their children on holiday during term time at any point and for any duration during the 13 years of their school lives have harmed their children's education that I object to. And if that isn't the case, then why would issuing penalty notices in every instance of holidays being taken during term time be of educational benefit to all those involved?

[TheDoctrineOfAllan]

Sorry, my post wasn't clear.

The government believes attendance is a key factor, hence penalty notices.

The government accepts there may be exceptional reasons for non-attendance, hence authorised absences that avoid penalty notices.

[rabbitstew]

Which goes back to the question of schools and Local Authorities which have decided that no holiday should ever be authorised - ie schools which are not using their discretion in individual circumstances, but instead imposing blanket bans. If most people agree that sometimes a "holiday" can be of educational or other important benefit to a child, even during term time, then why the blanket ban? To enable people to be more inventive as the reasons why they are going away, so it can count as some random other authorised circumstance that happens also to be an enjoyable experience away from home (ie also a holiday...)?

[Cavort]

We want to take DH's DD (my DSD) to Disneyland Florida in the October Half Term, but will need to take a few extra days due to the distance, which it would seem will now be unauthorised absence due to these changes coming into force on September 1st.

I have signed this e-petition to the government for those who disagree with the changes.

[prh47bridge]

Cavort - No. As has been said several times the situation has not really changed significantly. You apply to the school. The school may authorise the absence or they may not. If they do not you can either not go or go anyway and risk a fine. If you had gone last year it would have been exactly the same.

[DameSaggarmakersbottomknocker]

These are the changes to the regs for September 2013.

www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/behaviour/attendance/a00223868/regulations-amendments

AS prh47bridge says there is very little actual change to what happened before - leave is no longer called family holiday (we've not called it that in school for a long time, we use 'leave of absence in term-time') and there's the removal of the 10 days which lots of schools never gave anyway and which many parents thought was an entitlement when it was always only discretionary.

You can still have leave authorised in exceptional circumstances, for example I've authorised a week for a child whose sibling is going into hospital in another city and the parent has had to take the school age child with them as she has no other family here to care for him and deliver him to school. That is the sort of circumstances the regs are meant to cover.

[rabbitstew]

The fact is, the situation has changed and as a result all the schools near us, except my children's school, have responded by sending out letters saying that no holidays will ever be authorised in future, so no point asking. So much for no significant change....

[rabbitstew]

It might help if legislators thought about human beings and their human reactions to word changes before they changed words in a way that was not meant to be "significant."

[rabbitstew]

rubyrubyruby's query is precisely my objection to schools imposing blanket bans on particular types of absence, rather than leaving it open for parents to have a proper dialogue with the school to find out whether something can legitimately be permitted.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I think this is very disappointing and just encourages dishonesty, intolerance, and inflexibility - not a nice collection of attributes.

I asked for two different half-day absences for DD this year in order for her to attend interesting events with our faith community. Since she is at a faith school (secondary) this was looked at favourably enough to be granted. I also spoke about how I felt home and school should be a partnership in raising our young people, and the value of extra curricular activities in broadening children's experiences and education.

All things that, as well as sounding good, I do actually feel strongly about !

My children go to school because, on most days, that's where I feel is the best place for them to be. Very occasionally I feel they might benefit from taking part in another activity instead.
I hate the move towards totally inflexible obligation.

[prh47bridge]

The problem as always is those who abuse the system - those who treat 10 days off as a right and those who take inappropriate absences. As I said on another thread, it is often the more affluent families who claim they cannot afford to take a holiday unless it is during term time. On that thread I also gave the example of a family that took their child out of school for a holiday when they were supposed to be taking their GCSE exams. That is a genuine example.

But to repeat yet again, this is not a significant change. It is, however, the case that successive governments have for many years been encouraging schools to tighten up on attendance due to the research demonstrating that children taking holidays in term time frequently does real damage to their education, despite what their parents think. That is one of the reasons the last government introduced fines for unauthorised absences.

[rabbitstew]

The problem is, as always, treating everyone as though they abuse the system. If a minority abuse the system, why punish the majority?