Is private education really worth the cost?

[peanutbuttersarnies]

This is a genuine question. Sorry it's such a open question but I have no experience of private schools. And i just dont know. But I've started to wonder if we should send our two ds.

We can easily afford the costs per month based on our current salaries.

I've worked out that private education for both would be about £300k. With this money we could save and give them a deposit for a house. Or buy a property when they go to uni for them to share as their first property. So private education would need to be pretty amazing.

Dh and I were both state educated and nobody we know was privately educated. Our schools were I would say good at primary and average at secondary.
Dh thinks our dc will be state educated, it's just never occurred to us to use private education. I mentioned the possibilty the other day in front of my pil's and they seemed shocked that we'd consider
The local schools to where we are now are similar to the ones I attended myself, perhaps slightly less good.
One thing that is making me wonder about private education is that I wasnt all that happy at my secondary. I was sporty, but sport wasn't encouraged or cool. And I think private schools might be nicer places to be?

[Gilberte]

11112222- That's grim- no wonder you sent your DC to private school and very depressing.

I agree it is individual school and individual children who go to that school rather than area you need to be concerned about. As I've sent DC to school in what would be classed as a "deprived area" and I can't rate it highly enough.

[ICanTotallyDance]

It will depend on your children and the school. I went to a lovely 3-18 girls school, that my parents decided on when I was 18mths old (they picked it out for my older sister). It was, in my opinion, the best thing they ever did for me.

The school is (was?) supportive, kind, challenging and character building. Around the time I was 11 and progressing to the senior school, the school hit its academic stride and is now one of the top in my country (school is not in the uk, but "British Style").

However, I can't speak about the school your children will/would be attending. I suppose I could pm you the link to my old school if you want to compare it with the school you're considering (so you know where I'm coming from).

One thing I would mention- the extra expenses are hideous. For example, these were my "extras" for one term in Fifth Form (UK yr 11):

Netball Participation:£80
Netball Uniform: £110
Trip to Asia: £4100
Stockings (ripped, had to be replaced same day, accumulative): £20
Flights and Accommodation for Neuroscience competition: £135
Duke of Ed tramping trip: £34
Badminton Racket: £14
Maths Club Fee: £18
Music Lessons: £150
Winter Tie: £25
Exam Entrance Fee: £10
French Catch-Up Tuition: £85
Sports Registration Fee: £50
Fifth Form Camp: £340
Ski Trip: £220

Total (minus Asia trip): £1271
Grand Total: £5371

As you can see, for a 10 week term, that is one heck of a lot of money! That being said, extras don't get racked up at that rate until about Year 10 and that was an unusual term (hence why my family kept the statement of accounts). Usually, extras would cost about £250 a term + uniform items.

The work ethic you learn at a private school is astonishing. Many people claim children are spoon-fed at private schools, I believe this is not true. IME, when everyone around you is getting top grades, you push yourself until you achieve them as well. It sets you in good stead for university.

Are there kids there who don't do well? Yes
Are there bullies? Yes
Are there bad teachers? Yes
Are there leaky corridors? Yes

But...

Are there great exam results? Yes
Is there a good pastoral care and anti bullying system? Yes
Are there amazing teachers? Yes
Are there great facilities? Yes
Are there opportunities that other children simply don't have? Yes

Is it a better education than the local state school... ? In my case, yes it was (nearest state school 40 minutes away, anyway), in your families case, maybe not.

Investigate all your options before you pick and remember, you can always change schools.

[almapudden]

OP, what are the primaries like where you live? You say you're worried aboht sending dc to a rough school where learning isn't valued; in my experience this is much less of an issue at primary level but really rears its head at secondary.

If the local primary school (or the one you're likely to be allocated) is okay, save money and move the dc at 11 - or, if the private secondary is selective at 11 and you're worried about exam prep, you can move them at the start of Y5 and they'll have two years fo prepare.

[chickydoo]

Cost in Sw London ;(secondary)
6.3k a term. ( from 11-18)
= 21 terms
= 132k
Before extras.
So probably nearer 150k before tax.
A higher rate tax payer would be looking at having to earn close to 300k to pay for one set of secondary fees. Most private schools in and around London cost around the same.

Your question OP is it worth it?
Answer. I bloody well hope so

[thereinmadnesslies]

I think you and your DH both have to be happy with whatever option you chose, because it is a huge sacrifice and DC are at school for such a long time.

DS is at a prep school. I wanted him to go to the local ofsted outstanding state primary with his friends but DH won the argument. The private school is killing me. Any small issue related to the school upsets me in a hugely disproportionate way. I think because we are paying for it I expect it to be perfect, but like any school, it isn't.

[peanutbuttersarnies]

Icantotallydance those extras are scary!
Our local primary I quite good. I think I am leaning tirades state primary, private secondary.

[peanutbuttersarnies]

Leaning towards that should read

[peanutbuttersarnies]

We are in Scotland and the fees aren't as much as those being quoted for the London area, thankfully. Fees like that soul not be an option to us I think.

[MTSCostcoChickenFan]

ICanTotally - I too have never managed to understand the 'spoon fed' argument either.

My DCs have to research a topic at home in preparation for the lesson. So instead of the teacher reciting facts at the front of the class he is instead leading a discussion of what the kids have prepared for the lesson.

At my nephew's comp they are given printed notes and the teacher spends the lesson going through the notes which are complete with 'conclusion'. That to me is spoon feeding.

Some people have no idea what goes on inside a highly academic school. Instead they jump on sound bites about spoon feeding and the like.

[MrsFrederickWentworth]

It depends on the school and the child.

You can indeed change schools. We did. Apparently good primary didn't suit Ds. He was bullied v badly. Sent to poor academic but happyish prep, with a bit of tutoring, not much. Got on to academically selective school, good pastoral side. Not happy for first three years but had huge support for both pastoral and dyslexia, which secondary picked up.

Now thriving again.

I would normally never pay to send a child to an academically mediocre school, but he needed happiness and stability at that stage, and that is what he got.

[Gilberte]

You also need to ask yourself if you'd be happy to spend lots of money on your DC education and then accept that they might not want to be suited to a well-paid high flying career, might not be very academic, might struggle with exams.

If they do end up in a low paid job or deciding to give up work to bring up their children they might be glad for some help with a deposit.

I say this as someone who has a couple of degrees, DCs and a averagely paid part-time job.

[hardboiled]

Chickydoo, you add the total cost from 11 to 18 but then mention the salary of ONE year. I don't understand your numbers. You do not need to earn 300k to pay for one set if fees !!

[cory]

everlong Sun 05-May-13 18:06:57
"The thing with private schools ime is that you are the customer.

You are paying for a service, they want to keep you. They listen to you straight away and act on any concerns."

Cuts both ways though. If your dc should happen to develop some SN or personal problems which means they may disrupt the lessons or won't be able to keep up with the class, the school may also remember that the parents of the other children are customers and boot you out.

State schools have less leeway in these matters.

May seem like a remote risk, but we didn't know when dd started junior school that she would be disabled 6 months later and with an attendance record that made the HT's hair stand on end.

[Wuldric]

In my experience (and I have one DC at a state school and another educated privately) the spoon-feeding happens exclusively at the state school. It is in fact a national disgrace. Teachers, unashamedly, teach to the test. My DD has no knowledge or insight into any of the subjects she is learning. My DS does. She is, if anything, academically brighter than him.

Take GCSE French, for an example.

DS can converse quite happily, on a range of topics in French. He has been taught to conjugate his verbs, learn his vocabulary and learn a range of expressions. He is the one being educated privately.

DD has been 'taught' by a succession of fairly dubious supply teachers. She has learned nothing. I became concerned, but I was assured she would get a good grade. Her French oral consisted of learning responses to 5 questions, set in advance. She wrote the script (well actually I wrote the script, I had to, being as DD knows no French) and learned it parrot fashion and recited it. If this were not easy enough, she did it with her French teacher, rather than an external examiner. If this were not easy enough, she has unlimited goes at this 'test' for two years until she gets her A*. What a joke. What a ridiculous waste of time.

[Fairylea]

Purely on my own experience and the people I have met I would never send my dc to private schools.

My step brothers all went private. My ex dh and his family all went private. I went to state school and won a scholarship to a private school. I hated it. Lots of reasons really but I just hated it and left after 2 years and went back to state.

I did extremely well and was offered 6 top university places. My step brothers and ex dh and all his family all ended up with awful exam results and none went to university or even pursued places.

I did move up to Norfolk for a better quality of life for dc as the class sizes are smaller etc but I like the mix state schools give and I think it's more representative of the real world to mix with all types of people, not just those who choose private schools.

Again, just my own experience but I would always go for providing dc with a house deposit or savings rather than schooling.

[Wuldric]

Well that is your experience but that is how many years ago? And were you comparing like with like? There are private schools for the unacademic as well as academic private schools.

By the way, I was comparing like for like. DS's school is academically selective, as is DDs. DDs school is actually academically super-selective (ie they only take the very brightest on the entrance examination) so notionally has a better intake than DS's school. They achieve worse examination results at GCSE though, despite years of teaching to the test.

It is a proven fact that a private education leads to substantially higher earnings on average. So your sample size is (a) too small and (b) out of date and (c) skewed for the fact that you and your friends might be an awful lot brighter or more determined than your exdh

[Fairylea]

As I said, that's personal experience and I'm saying it's the same for everyone. This was 2001 for me. So yes some time ago. However because of the jobs I have worked in I have often worked with people who have gone to private school or send their dc there and I have to be honest and find them all a bit in a bubble... I'm probably going to offend a lot of people but I do think those who educate privately tend to think themselves and their dc more intelligent and of a better class than others when having good exam results doesn't necessarily mean someone is more intelligent. Sometimes life situations get in the way but people don't tend to make allowances for this.

But I'm probably all kinds of wrong as I'm sure people will come on to tell me but I'm as entitled to my opinion as everyone else even if it is made through personal experience.

[rabbitstew]

When it comes to private education leading to substantially higher earnings on average, you can't help but think that this may partly be due to the need to earn more if you are to repeat your own experience for your children - you only have to look at the thread, "Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education" to wonder about that...

[Jinsei]

YY rabbit, plus the kind of people who can afford to send their kids to private schools are much more likely to be well connected, and able to fund unpaid internships in the holidays etc. The higher earnings may have very little to do with the schools themselves and everything to do with the families who use them. I've seen this time and time again.

[Pyrrah]

Depends on school and depends on child.

We're hoping to do state primary followed by selective indy secondary.

I went to state primary then moved to hot-housing private prep and then super-selective state grammar.

DH did state primary, 2 years of private tutors and scholarship to super-selective indy.

Not all state schools are bad and not all private schools are good.

What are you wanting? Great academic results? Great sport? Good all round and a happy atmosphere and not too pushy?

If I had a not very bright DC then I would definitely try and get them into a private school that would do their best to get them a decent crop of exam results and into university without making them feel useless and bottom of the class (these schools do exist).

If I had a very bright but rather lazy and inclined to coast child I would be looking for a school - state with proper streaming, or indy that would mean they had to coast at a high level and so still did well.

Also depends if child is v sporty - private schools have better facilities and more time spent on sport on the whole; or if v geeky - might be happy amongst similar peers where academic success is celebrated rather than ridiculed.

In my experience, going on the skiing trips or the trips abroad is not essential and the vast majority of DCs at a school don't go. A lot of parents can just about manage the fees and couldn't begin to find thousands for an overseas trip - it's not mean to say no to such things.

If money was no object, I would send DD private throughout because I personally believe that on the whole good private schools provide a better all-round education.

[MTSCostcoChickenFan]

Fairylea - I just love it when posters go on about how great they are doing and how crap their ex private school friends/relatives are doing and from that concluding that private school is a waste of money.

You have demonstrated that you are a very open minded person that is not given to generalisation or drawing conclusions based on a limited sample. You are a credit to your school.

[chickydoo]

Hard boiled
Each term costs 6.3K
So 1 year is 18.9 k

Lets say maximum of 1k a term extras. ( that would include lunch & transport)
Making a yearly bill of 22k approx
If you are a higher rate tax payer you would need to earn around 40k to pay for that. ( approx)
40k x 7 years at secondary is 280k

Not including any school trips

[cory]

I am not in a position to send my children to private school and possibly wouldn't anyway.

But I don't think it's as clearcut as private school=you will end up this way, state school= you will end up this way.

Schools are all different, private or state, children are all different and respond in different ways.

I wouldn't necessarily even suppose that the school with the highest results would be the best fit. We didn't apply to either of the two secondaries with the top results in town, because (highly academic) dd didn't think they would suit her, and we felt she was right.

The thing to remember is that your child will not be leaving the school with the average GCSE results for that school, he will be leaving with his own results and they will depend on how well the school has done for him, not for some other child.

[happygardening]

"I think because we are paying for it I expect it to be perfect, but like any school, it isn't."
OP this is what you have to remember no where is perfect and there isn't a school out there thats perfect for every child.
Its all about what you want and expect from education versus how much money you've got. We believe in boarding we personally like what it offers I'm aware that plenty don't that's their choice and this is ours we also believe in super selective education probably less controversial but still not everyones choice. Combine the two together and we're happy to pay for it. I personally wouldn't waste my money pay for a selective independent day school let alone a non selective independent day school but then we've got good state alternatives on our door step. Again thats my choice plenty happily do.
"You also need to ask yourself if you'd be happy to spend lots of money on your DC education and then accept that they might not want to be suited to a well-paid high flying career,"
I may be in a minority but I don't give a toss about these things its not what I'm paying for.
Regarding spoon feeding I've absolutely no idea if one sector spoon feeds more than the other a lot probably depends on the individual school/child/the subject and even teacher.