Year 6 SATS - pointless apart from league tables?

[SalaciousCrumb]

That's it really - I am looking through the information sent by ds's soon to be secondary school and they say CATs are a better indication of the child's ability and SATS are just an indication at a given point in time. He sits CATs when he goes to visit his secondary school in July.

He did practice papers over easter; he felt very unmotivated and I bit my tongue - just told him the school need to show how everybody is doing.

He is also going in at 8pm for 'booster' maths sessions until May. He doesn't seem to mind that as it means he can have a break from his younger sister! I would like to think it would help him generally with maths but it is teaching to pass a test.

I am hoping these pointless tests will be scrapped by the time dd starts year 6 as the stress and tension in school and also at home caused is a complete pain. I am hoping all this useless cracking the whip will not put him off education as he's questioning why they have to go through 5 years of test papers "why can't we just do the test?"

I am sure some children would sail through them without feeling stressed but not my ds.

Right, rant over. Can anybody see any value in SATS?

[SalaciousCrumb]

Well, ds has just done off for his booster maths and doesn't seem to mind. I hope he doesn't get as stressed on the run up to these SATS in May; just before easter he was crying with it all

I think in a couple of years time when he's more mature he will cope so much better with these things, but the pressure surrounding these tests and how they are talked up at school is intense.

We are in one of the highest achieving primaries around here.

[SalaciousCrumb]

chic my dd will probably achieve Level 4 by year 4; it remains to be seen what they do with her.

[gazzalw]

It's not a level playing field though, as regards the league tables, if some schools are doing 'booster' classes to help bump up their overall results. I know of several schools in our locale that do this as a matter of course and lo' and behold they usually do very well in the league tables.

DD's primary has always had a very honest approach to the KS2 SATs and for that reason is usually fairly average in the league tables. However, last year's cohort (DS's class) was an exceptionally bright class, naturally. So even without additional lessons they did really, really well - and this a culturally and socially mixed school. They came second and then only to a primary that is in such a chichi part of the Borough that it is a prep school in all but name.

I do agree though that the overall approach to SATS by the schools seems to be getting more strategic and focused, year on year. Goodness knows what it will be like by the time DD gets to Year 6 ...

[lljkk]

DD does y6 SATs next month & has done tonnes (I mean Tonnes) of non SAT stuff this year. Am very pleased.

So what do school do when a child enters not having done Sats.

They seem to muddle thru, had this with DS (no CATs or SATs after yr5).

you get situations where DC have already achieved the expected level 4 by year 4 and then get ignored for the rest of primary school because the school is focusing on those who still need to achieve.

If Ofsted detect that they will slam the school for it, they are very hot on looking out for it.

Agree it's not a level playing field, though. DD school is not doing booster anything that I know about. I think I prefer their laid back approach, but definitely not comparing like with like between schools if stories on MN are even half true.

[Elibean]

I'm kind of hoping that by the time dd2 (y1 now) gets to Y6, there won't be SATS. Though I suppose something else similar would take its place...

[chicaguapa]

I'm just basing it on my experience. DD is sitting all the level 6 SATs papers too and was level 4 at the end of Y3. But it's only the Y6 teacher who has spent any time bringing DD on, as a result of us challenging DD's progress or lack of it.

I firmly believe this is because DD had already reached the holy grail of level 4 and was a cert to achieve level 5. So she just flew under the radar of the Y4 & Y5 teachers and didn't warrant any special attention. DD's school was more interested in their level 4 percentage and therefore their league table. There was no sense of trying to get anyone to level 6 at all.

On the one hand, absolutely fair enough, focus on those who still need to acheive and make sure they leave primary school with the required skills. But on the other, whatever happened to ensuring every child fulfilled their potential? So I've concluded that I don't think a primary school's objective is to fulfill potential. I think they are more constrained in what they can offer and they focus on getting everyone to the same place on which to build a secondary education, as is their objective.

So in real terms, I think it's the CAT scores that will make the biggest difference to DD's further academic progress and GCSE acheivement. They will put her into the appropriate set and will make sure she's working at the correct level for her. I believe these test cognitive ability, rather than simply what they have been taught to date, and therefore signals academic potential more accurately than something they have been taught to pass.

[chicaguapa]

If Ofsted detect that they will slam the school for it, they are very hot on looking out for it.

Not at DC's school. DD made no progress in 2 academic years and I even answered on the OFSTED questionnaire 'completely disagree' under the question 'My children makes progress at this school' and still nada.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread. But my belief still stands that SATs are for the school's benefit and them alone.

[lljkk]

That's a shame, CG. :(. When was this Ofsted when you gave that f/back?

[chicaguapa]

I don't remember it being linked to an inspection. I think they just sent them out anyway then binned them.

[lljkk]

I just wondered if it was more than 3 yrs ago; there seem to be fewer stories like yours in last 3 yrs, anyway.

[chicaguapa]

It was definitely in the last 3 years as DD joined this term in Y3 and is in Y6 now. I always wondered why Ofsted hadn't picked it up or even the school. Luckily DD is having a great Y6 and has come on leaps and bounds. She has a fantastic teacher now who'll be getting a lovely present in July.

[SalaciousCrumb]

tiggy She's year 3, I meant by the end of year 4 dd will be at level 4. So I anticipate she will be level 5 by year 6 and they won't be requiring her to do booster SATs

Well, ds went for his booster maths lesson yesterday morning. He had no comment to make about the difficulty of it just said he was tired. He didn't drop off to sleep very early last night so it remains to be seen how he copes today with an 8.00am start. If it starts stressing him too much I won't take him.

On the upside they went pond dipping and he caught a chocolate eclair so at least the school are factoring in some down time.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hi OP.

There are parents in our area making a stand and taking kids out during SATS week, or feigning illness. You don't have to do them, but a bit unfair on the teachers as it brings their targets down.
There is far too much stress on the dc just to tick boxes for Ofsted. I am so glad my dd won't do them or any other meaningless assessments.
Its a shame imo that teachers aren't allowed to get on with the job they enjoy most, teaching.

[SalaciousCrumb]

Yes I agree tiggy I can imagine how it would rebound on the child. I feel like telling him to forget the citizenship project they are doing also, but ds is saying it will not be worth the shame

I am concerned about ds he is having meltdowns it's after having an hour on the computer and skyping friends; any stresses on top of what's already happening and it's so difficult for him

They even wanted him to do booster literacy. I consider creative writing to be his particular strength, so we declined.

tiggytape are you a teacher?

[SalaciousCrumb]

He's exhausted and tearful. I'm not taking him. He is worried the teachers will tell him off so there's a note with URGENT written on it that is going in .

What are they doing to children's education Someone said earlier it's the beginning of testing etc etc which will be the rest of their schooling. BUT not at 10, he is just not ready. OK, he will probably be more mature and able to handle it later. I just hope this just doesn't kill his love of learning .

On the other hand my dd wants to do the whole lot now - SATS, citienship. I know all children are different.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Tiggy.

I couldn't agree more. The parents who I know who are taking a stand are doing so not because their dc will be tested but the circus that surrounds the tests.
My older dc 21 and 18 both did sats and they nor the parents knew when the dc were taking them. If you as a parent wanted to do extra work with them you were welcome, but even so the teachers were more concerned about the children's well being. They covered a bit of how to answer the questions in class and certainly no booster classes were thought of.
My dd is no longer in school and I am so happy she won't have to go through this and further assessments it just seems ridiculous now.
I also think as many dc have outside interests and hobbies these shouldn't be allowed to suffer because of assessment

[chicaguapa]

I don't see the SATs pressure on DC improving either, now that teachers' pay increases are going to be performance-related and will undoubtably be based on how many hoops the teachers can get the DC to jump through to demonstrate their performance that year.

It's no longer going to be just about the league tables, but teacher's pay itself. I can't see the value in that for primary school DC and how that's going to benefit them.

[Jessie40]

I'm new to this site. My child came out of school Monday and said they felt they had messed up the test (The other tests were ok).
But I'm now concerned that he's levels will go down which will affect sets at secondary school.
Also can anyone tell me how the levels are worked out, with the new SPAG tests and teacher assessment.

[lljkk]

Jessie
I read that SPAG is graded separately, not part of general English mark.
Depends what school he's headed for, but most only refer to SATs for target setting not for the actual ability groups they get to work in.
So a bad day shouldn't mean anything.

[Feenie]

Yes, that's correct. There will be no English result this year. So you should receive:

A Reading TA level and a Reading test level
A Writing TA level
A SPAG mark
A Maths TA and a Maths test level