RG unis - are they really THAT difficult to get in?

[Tasmania]

The more I read MN, the more my eyes seem to be opened up to a world I don't recognize. I guess it's true that we don't actually live in one world, but rather in smaller worlds that co-exist on one planet.

I have read, for example, that some state schools never manage to send any child to a RG uni, and a lot of people who are very supportive about state schools get very, very upset by that.

As someone who went to a RG uni, whose DH, SILs, friends (and their DHs) and even colleagues also went to such unis... are they really THAT difficult to get in? Some of those listed went to state schools. It didn't look as though they saw these unis as "out of reach".

Sometimes, I do wonder whether it is actually the nation's obsession of getting as many kids as possible into uni that makes the world seem so much more unfair. Because you have to admit that not many people went to uni in previous generations, and it is virtually impossible for everyone to attend Oxbridge (maybe in future, people can attend lectures online, etc.). So some people will HAVE to be left out. Is that really so bad?

We don't live in a communist state... but even the old Soviet Union had universities that were out of bounds for many.

[scottishmummy]

God Im waiting on the stealth braggers turning up to go on about their rg uni,
How a vairy naice life is only guaranteed by attendance at rg uni and dose of Chaucer
Then bemoan anything not rg and mutter darkly about media studies

[Ronaldo]

Take a deep breath ladies - I think this idea of disadvantage and whistling down a coal mine to find the bright rising star who is under privledged is a myth.

I suspect it may always have been ( and there is evidence for that too from the 1960's).

Lack olf ability is largely what is holding these DC back now.

Dont try to tell this SM lad differently. I have seen nearly all of it before.

[Scrazy]

Ronaldo, this isn't the same in my area at all but the school still doesn't churn out AAB students ten to the dozen. Maybe that's because they are all fick in our area .

Creaming off the top 25% might not get the late achievers, not all children hit their optimum intelligence, determination level at aged 11.

As Cop said, if a student has the right mentor and backing then even with B's and C's at a low achieving school they often do just as well as the straight A students once at university.

[Ronaldo]

Edu rubbish spout afgain - late achievers and all that . never met one yet.

if the school is failinbg you need to look at why - realisitically, not churn the disadvantage myth around. It does no one any favours.

[Copthallresident]

Abr1d Hopefully those schools are being motivated to improve by OFSTED and increasingly by links to other schools who are outstanding in similar environments, and to improve in terms of delivering teaching and learning outcomes that enable all their pupils to achieve their potential, not just the brightest.

So levelling the playing field for the disadvantaged is disadvantaging the advantaged? Only in the sense they were over privileged in the first place. I have two DDs who have been / are in very selective indies and they certainly appreciate they have had a lot of advantages over their peers in state schools, even those in outstanding comps but especially those in a comp in special measures in an area of deprivation. Comes as quite a shock when you are at a school where B is for bad and a cousin comments. "I were right good at Maths. I got a C"

[morethanpotatoprints]

I left school with no qualifications and went back to college as a mature student. After several years of study and various quals, I was offered an unconditional place on a Masters course at Manchester, which somebody up thread said was an RG. The course was very popular and attracted far too many applicants.
So if Manchester is an RG then its possible to get in with equivalent quals to A levels and having gained no GCSE's.

So what are the other RG Uni's and what are the popular subjects?

[minsmum]

My dd goes to a comprehensive school in a poor area renowned for high levels of knife crime and got offers of A A A for RG universities.

[Abra1d]

'Comes as quite a shock when you are at a school where B is for bad and a cousin comments. "I were right good at Maths. I got a C"'

No shock to me: we have experience of this too.

I agree that levelling the playing field for disadvantaged children is only just and good sense! Good sense in that the country can't afford to waste talent.

My main concern is still with some schools 'getting away' with poor teaching and not nurturing talent. That seems unfair to schools and teachers who work hard: particularly in difficult circumstances.

[Scrazy]

I doubt it is stopping your DC's getting in. If everyone is meeting their offers then I don't see the problem. Grades are only part of the application. It's a shame it isn't possible to interview all applicants to stop this sort of resentment.

[scottishmummy]

Rg unis,Glasgow,Edinburgh certain courses v competitive overall but not that hard to get in
These threads turn into a yawnathon about who went where and if it's not English lit it's not naice degree

[wordfactory]

Ronaldo I do think there's a degree of truth that wealthy and successful people tend to be clever. Contrary to poular wisdom many top end jobs do require you to have a quick mind.

Indeed, all the boys in DS school are both highly intelligent (it is absurdly selective) and from wealthy backgrounds.

But that doesn't mean that the opposite is true. That poor people are of low ability. Obviously there will be a section of the poor that is low ability - they couldn't do work that required a quick mind. But there is also a section of the poor that is perfectly able but don't have the opportunities to leave poverty.

This was one of the original motivators for the G&T initiative; to keep tabs on DC with promise and see what became of them.

[Tasmania]

morethanpotatoprints

I personally think that a lot of people associate RG unis with places like Oxbridge (obviously!), Durham, Bristol, Edinburgh etc. - and also including non-RG unis such as St. Andrews... which are very popular with what I would call NOT middle class but the upper middle class of society.

These places are harder to get into it seems, though I DO know that mature students will find it easier to get in than younger people... part of the whole diversity thing.

[Copthallresident]

Oh Ronaldo You have convinced me. I will now go into uni and demand we stop all fair access programmes now and look on those undergraduates currently on courses as a result of those schemes as thickos , in spite of all the evidence I have seen to the contrary ..... I will also demand the mentoring charity I am involved in stop linking pupils from West Indian backgrounds to people from the same background who have succeeded in the city even though those pupils go on and get firsts, because they are obviously thick too, the pupils and the mentors.

[Abra1d]

Scrazy was that aimed at me? I am not particularly resentful: my children have had a good education (and education is about more than university entrance) and I doubt they will be affected too badly in any case. I just think there could be unintended consequences of dropping grades.

[wordfactory]

Ronaldo I'm also afriad that DH and I both prove you wrong.

I am from the underclass and brought up in abject poverty. I went to Oxbridge and have earned a lot of money in various professions.

DH was a late starter. Thought a dullard by school and family. He has a double first and is now a senior partnerin a magic circle law firm. Hey ho.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I meant to add I'm a bit dim here but what exactly is oxbridge.

People say they went to oxbridge, as they are naming a particular University. I also heard that oxbridge was either an Oxford or Cambridge college that was termed in this way so as not to identify a particular person.
Please can somebody explain to a dim person.

[Abra1d]

It's like a kind of shorthand for 'Oxford and Cambridge'.

[Abra1d]

Oxford and/or Cambridge, really.

[wordfactory]

Oh another late starter - DS. Forgot about him.

Went to primary unable to read or write. Very average for most of the early years. Now attends one of the most selctive schools in the country. Hey ho.

[Scrazy]

No sorry it was aimed at Ronaldo, who doesn't believe in widening access to higher education.

[wordfactory]

People say Oxbridge to mean one or t'other.

They're seperate universities and you can't even apply to them both!

[Scrazy]

Oh also forgot to add when mentioning late developers, many parents cannot afford to hothouse their little ones to prepare for the 11+ therefore bright children can end up at the local 'hell hole'.

[wordfactory]

List of RG unis www.russellgroup.ac.uk/our-universities/

[Ronaldo]

Copthallr , I was a university lecturer for many years. I have never seen what you describe working out the way you say. What I often did find is that the successful ones had characteristics which were covered by the " deprivation" label. In fact scratch the surface and they werent! The others tended to drop out.

I could go on. If you want that level playing field it would be better to address the herd of elphants in the state education provision instead.

[wordfactory]

scrazy at the primary where I volunteered no one ver even applied to the nearest grammar. Never.

I cannot believe that not one child in all those years didn't have enough ability.