Tory by-election candidate on state education....

[seeker]

......sorry it's the Daily Mirror, but so far it's that or the Huffington Post! At least they are showing their true colours......
Here

[adeucalione]

My understanding is that she has four children, three of whom are doing well in the state system, which suggests that she is broadly supportive of the state system locally.

I also know that three of her children are autistic. Maybe if William is autistic and gifted, that might make it harder for her to find suitable state provision, the sort of provision that might allow him to realise his ambitions to become a surgeon?

No idea. I don't like the woman (since her barmy attack on Blair and MMR rant) but think its shabby to criticise her choices, for one of her children, who may well find mainstream education difficult.

[Faxthatpam]

Ummm... me?! Or - at least it can be.

I actually do believe that you get a better all round real life education from an outstanding state school, than you do from the expensive private school "idyll".

I have an uncle who is a professor of Economics at LSE, he says that, in general, the state educated undergrads cope better and achieve more than the privately educated ones. For practically everyone life isn't a rarified idyll and at some point, you are very likely to have to deal with this. IMHO

[FillyPutty]

Apparently her oldest daughter is 24, and has Aspergers.
Her oldest son is 18 and is severely autistic.
The son in question is 12 and her youngest daughter 10.

It would seem that she has considerable experience of the state education system from this.

[Faxthatpam]

Whatever her experience, it was a very silly thing for a candidate to say during a by election. For that reason alone she should be criticised.

[Tasmania]

Good parents would normally go for the school that is best for their child. Sometimes, that school is non-existent in the state school sector, but is available in the private sector.

Are you saying that the parent should not do what's best for the child out of principle?!?

Faxthatpam - that might be all well and good what your uncle said, as long as the student remains a student. At some point, he/she will had to leave the idyll of HE, and you'll find that no matter how well the state school students may have done in academia, in most of the well-paid careers, the ones at the top were overwhelmingly educated in the private sector. Even in less-paid (i.e. they don't earn that much) but prestigious sectors such as academia, I'm told that this is the case.

I don't actually believe that you get better a all round education in the state sector. They do that better in the private sector, where there are generous budgets for drama, music, debating, etc. We do not live in London, so there's not even the excuse of the local state school being more ethnically diverse. The private schools, however, are - because a lot of families with a non-white background actually place a huge importance on education, and are very ambitious as to where they believe their kids should be heading.

[Faxthatpam]

Tasmania
It depends where you want them to end up I guess. I just want my kids to be happy and well adjusted adults with a real idea of what it's like to live outside of that private school "idyll". I want them to be good at motivating themselves and I want them to be good at empathy. So far I am not disappointed, my DS1 is in his 2nd yr of uni, he had his moments but he found his way out of them. I think if more politicians had this background they would be far better at their jobs.

The point about HE is that it can be the first taste of this real world, with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds, and all sorts of distractions. It isn't an "idyll" in the way a private school (as described by a previous poster) can be, it is a stepping stone into reality. That's why most kids from comps do better I guess, they are used to working and dealing with the distractions. You are right, there are definitely not enough state educated people in the "top" ie highly paid careers - that is NOT a good thing and it's an issue that needs addressing.

Anyway - sorry for hijacking the thread, I was only really responding to the assumption that we all agree private = best! .

[seeker]

People are spectacularly missing the point.

Nobody is saying that politicians should pretend that bad schools are good schools.

I suppose if they are open about it there is no reason why they shouldn't send their children to private schools.

What this woman said is that it is impossible to get an education for a bright child in the state system. She also implied, if not actually said, that you cannot be a surgeon from a state schools. I don't want people in government who believe these things.

[Faxthatpam]

Yes, from what she is quoted as saying - which is all we can go on - the implication was certainly that you cannot be a surgeon from a state school. This is idiotic. She should not be in government if she believes this.

[LittleFrieda]

It's up to the people of Eastleigh who they elect to serve them in government.

[seeker]

So not appropriate for people in other constituencies to discuss it? How very bizarre!

[FillyPutty]

I am a bit suspicious that she is Nadine Dorries mk2.

However, she didn't say that you cannot get an education for a bright child in the state system.

She said,

"William is very gifted, which gives us another interesting challenge in finding the right sort of education for him ? impossible in the state system."

It might well be that she cannot find the right education for 'William', in the state system.

That is not "no bright child can be find a good education in the state system".

I don't believe for a minute that she implied you cannot be a surgeon from state schools.

It's normal for newspaper articles to omit part of people's prose, prompting questions, and so on. It's unreasonable to assume that she actually uttered, consecutively:

"William is very gifted, which gives us another interesting challenge in finding the right sort of education for him ? impossible in the state system."

followed by, without any intevening words or prompts,

"He wants to be a cardiorespiratory surgeon."

The whole thing looks to me to have been sub-edited by a tabloid editor, it doesn't read like spoken English.

I believe that she, as have numerous other politicians, have stated that one of her children 'needs' a private education.

I also believe that she said that he wanted him to be a surgeon.

I do NOT believe that she said or even implied that this was impossible from a state school.

You just can't manufacture this kind of outrage from a two-line quote in the middle of a Daily Mail article.

The article also claims:

"Clearly, money is tight. ?Three weeks ago I had to scrap my car because it broke down a second time and I couldn?t afford to fix it. But there?s a bus stop nearby, though I have to change buses to get into town. And the other mums are brilliant at helping out.?
A talented pianist and cellist, she sold her cello to buy a new TV. The family aquarium lies empty because they can?t afford to stock it."

I checked, and she used to live on Romsey Road in Benfleet - a modest house in a modest area. The implication that she is some sort of remote Tory grandee who has no idea about the real world seems to be quite misplaced therefore. She looks rather, to be one of the allegedly mythical squeezed middle parents who has made sacrifices to send one of her four children to private school.

[seeker]

I don't think she did, actually. I think she said that the wrong school and getting caught up with the wrong people could lead to gang membership.

But I think she was wrong too- I am an equal opportunities politician basher!

[FillyPutty]

I think Diane Abbott had a point, much as I dislike her politics. Outcomes specifically for black boys in London, outside of private schools, are generally dismal. By comparison many Indian and Chinese boys do very well.

[DadOnIce]

But people don't go to private school because they are "too bright" for the state system, or because they want something the state system can't provide. If this automatically happened, there might be some argument for an alternative to state education. What actually happens is that - a small handful of token bursaries aside - people go to private school if their parents can afford to pay for it. So the alternative system exists not to serve the pupils who need something different, but those whose parents have the deepest wallets.

[wordfactory]

If she had said, 'well I've had my two eldest go through our local schools and I just don't think they'll be right for my son who is super bright,' would you have been happy?

[FillyPutty]

'But people don't go to private school because they are "too bright" for the state system, or because they want something the state system can't provide.'

Yes they do.

"What actually happens is that - a small handful of token bursaries aside - people go to private school if their parents can afford to pay for it. "

Yes that's also true.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Hutchings, it seems clear, cannot afford to send all her four children to private school. She has chosen to send one to private school because she feels that he in particular 'needs' it. We don't know if he gets a bursary or scholarship, but clearly this decision has been influenced by her assessment of her son's needs.

I don't think she has said that he is 'too bright for state school'. She feels that her chosen private school better caters for her son's needs, whatever they are, than the available state schools. This is undoubtedly true!

Perhaps when she moved from Benfleet she missed the cut-off for school applications so was allocated a failing school for him. Or, perhaps she applied in time, but could not afford to live in the catchment for one of the good local schools and went private instead.

[LilyBolero]

We really don't need another nutter in parliament.

She only moved to Eastleigh in 2010, when she was selected as the candidate for Eastleight.

She is anti gay marriage, and anti abortion, and says her preference is no abortion, but if you have to have it, the limit should be 10 weeks. (Look at the abuse Nadine Dorries got for suggesting 20 weeks!).

Whatever her views on education, she was very very foolish to say something like this. Not someone who should be in politics.

She says she is someone who 'gets things done'. But her response to not thinking local (outstanding) schools were good enough was to duck out and go private. John O'Farrell set up a school and chaired the governors so the whole community got a STATE school that was good. That's getting things done.

[LilyBolero]

tiggytape; exactly - most people don't have the get-out option of private.

John O'Farrell on state education

[seeker]

So many people happy to rewrite the quote to make it more acceptable!

[FillyPutty]

Because she did not say that you cannot be a surgeon from a state school. She did not say state schools are unsuitable for bright children. These are facts.

If you want to read things into her comments that she didn't actually say, that's your choice. My experience of media quoting people suggests that is inappropriate.

[LilyBolero]

Well, I haven't heard anyone from ToryHQ saying 'the quote is out of context', or 'she was talking about his SN'.

What I have heard is that she said it is impossible to find the right education for her son in the state sector, because he is very gifted.'

Which is just rubbish.

[FillyPutty]

So what state school was her son allocated, Lily?