To use donor eggs (double donation) or not?

[ConfusedKangaroo]

I've posted recently about DP and I looking into double donation – and the replies have been really helpful. I would like to get some feedback on another question.

We're looking at donation as DP has azoospermia (surgical retrieval is not an option). We initially considered adoption and looked into it extensively, but eventually decided that it was not the right route for us. I am nearing 40 (would likely be 40 at time of treatment) and had a fertility test last year. My AMH levels weren't great at the time but weren't terrible. Since then, I feel like my periods have gotten shorter and lighter too. DP has said he would feel more comfortable with a double donation as it would feel more 'equal' and he thinks of it as adopting before birth. He feels like he wouldn't be all that comfortable just using donor sperm. From what I've read, the chances of success are higher if we were to also use a donor egg, given my age and AMH levels etc. I just want the treatment to have the highest chance of success as possible and am open to the idea of a double donation, but also feel a bit sad at the thought of potentially being able to use my eggs and not. I am quite phobic of medical procedures and it's a big thing to put myself through the treatment in the first place, which is another factor playing into my decision making.

We are considering treatment in Denmark, and using information release donors (so the child has the opportunity to contact donors at 18 if they wish).

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What would you do?

Thank you for reading!

[TenOhSeven]

It is nothing at all like "adopting before birth" what an idiotic thing to say. Most of the trauma that adopted children go through happens between birth and their eventual adoption. Your baby may not be biologically related to you but that's where the comparison ends.

[eastiseastwestiswest]

I haven't been in a similar situation but I feel instinctively that if you're able to use your own eggs and you want to then you should. You should not use a donor egg because it makes your partner feel better about the situation- perhaps he needs (or you both need?) some counselling to work through all of the issues here and help him to feel comfortable with donor sperm without a donor egg (if that's what you want). You can't make a decision not to have a biological child just to make your partner happy. I can understand why he feels the way he feels but to be blunt that's really his issue to work through.

[Londisc]

Studies suggest that you need to explain the situation to your child from a very young age (before they start school).

How would you explain why you used another woman's eggs? In thinking about that, how does that response - the one you decide you would give - sit with you and DH? How does the honest response for the motivation sit with you? The child's well-being is the 100% priority here.

Have you both had counselling?

[ConfusedKangaroo]

@TenOhSeven

It is nothing at all like "adopting before birth" what an idiotic thing to say. Most of the trauma that adopted children go through happens between birth and their eventual adoption. Your baby may not be biologically related to you but that's where the comparison ends.

I'm really sorry if this wording caused offence – I think that's what he meant (ie. the child not being biologically related to either of us – there would obviously be none of the other trauma that adoption entails) and parenting a donor conceived child is a very different thing to parenting an adopted child (any route to parenthood has different challenges and considerations). We looked into adoption extensively, attended information sessions etc before starting to think about donation as a route.

I think everyone's suggestions of counselling for both of us (probably together and individually) is the best way forward. I do think there would be challenges in using my own eggs given my AMH levels and how light my periods have gotten since they were taken (they have gone from c. 4-5 days long to being 1-2 days long in recent months). So I think there are multiple reasons for considering a double donation. I have been looking into the donor conception network, which seems to be a valuable resource, and so will look into a membership there and speak to the clinics we are looking into for what kind of counselling they offer.

[ConfusedKangaroo]

@Londisc

Studies suggest that you need to explain the situation to your child from a very young age (before they start school).

How would you explain why you used another woman's eggs? In thinking about that, how does that response - the one you decide you would give - sit with you and DH? How does the honest response for the motivation sit with you? The child's well-being is the 100% priority here.

Have you both had counselling?

We would definitely be explaining the situation to our potential child from a very young age. I believe the donor conception network has a series of age appropriate books that help to explain the concept to children. We would definitely not want it to be a secret, or to wait until the child was older to tell them. We would also want to do an information release donoation so that the child could contact their donor when they were 18 if they chose to.

I honestly don't hold out much hope for my own eggs being successful – and I would just explain this to the child when it came up.

I guess my question is more around whether anyone has experience of using donor eggs before trying with their own eggs based on the assumption that it would likely not be a success. As you suggest, I think counselling is the best way forward.

[SquashPenguin]

I’m about to start a donor egg cycle (with my partners sperm) as soon as my period turns up. I’m 37 but my AMH has dropped drastically over the last two years. I never even imagined that using donor eggs would become part of my story, but it has taken 4 egg collections to get here and I’m ok with it now. I’m not sure I could’ve gone straight to donor without having tried my own eggs. Then again, I was 34 when I started and the doctors had reasonable belief that my egg quality would be ok (it really wasn’t).

I think you need a frank and honest talk with a fertility consultant who can give you the stats. No one can predict egg quality but age is the main indicator. That being said, some women in their 40’s do have ivf children with their own eggs, and there are people like me in their 30’s who have run out of eggs prematurely.

Just my opinion but I don’t think I agree with using DE just to be ‘equal’. I’ve never heard anyone say that before. I know it’s not a cheap way to find out but I think I would want to try one cycle with my own eggs in your situation.

[NotMyDayJob]

I am DM to a donor conceived baby, DH sperm donor egg. You absolutely have to have some counselling before you go any further with this. While I can see the 'logic' in your DHs thinking it's honestly not a healthy way to approach this process. This is not a situation where things have to be completely equal, it almost feels like he's saying if I can't be biologically related neither can you. It is not the best thing for the child to not be biologically related to either of their parents for these types of reasons. You absolutely have to have counselling before you consider this any further.

[Londisc]

The reason I ask is I thinking about what we say to each other vs what we thought we'd say to a child can help us face some harder questions that do need asking. When I was in your position I had all sorts of thoughts that seemed quite logical at the time but on closer examination were a but confused. Left unresolved, these things will have a lasting impact.

The things you would not tell your child - I felt sad about not using my own eggs but I was quite scared of having the procedure to extract eggs so used the eggs of another woman who'd had the procedure. Also, dad didn't really want you to be just not his - better for you to be both of ours or neither of us, so you're like an adopted child but from birth.

It's hard to convey tone in a text message to a stranger but I want to say that these are real and understandable feelings and thoughts that you are having but they need to be made sense of before you make any decisions.

In the end DH and I didn't go ahead with anything and counselling was really helpful for us in feeling confident we were making the right decision for us (not suggesting for one second it's the right suggestion for you).

Good luck and I hope it works out well for you.

[ConfusedKangaroo]

@Londisc thank you for replying. This way of thinking about it is really helpful. I absolutely hate this whole process. I'm also the only one of my friends / family (that I know of) going through it – everyone else I know just seems to fall pregnant as soon as they decide it's the right time. I know there are so many challenges relating to pregnancy and starting a family in any circumstances, even if it seems 'easy', but I just want it to be that easy for us.

Everyone I know seems to be pregnant or have kids right now and it's so hard to even just have a social life. I can't speak about this with anyone I know in real life, and anyone I have tried to speak with about it in the past just doesn't understand – they seem to think it's a simple process of "just adopt" or "just use a donor" and they haven't even begun to consider the ethical challenges or the impact on the child.

[ConfusedKangaroo]

@Londisc thank you also for sharing your experience. It's good to hear that counselling was helpful in making the right decision for you.x

[JustFrustrated]

As someone who is going to be an egg donor (scans etc start this week)

You know that using a UK clinic means the child has the right to contact the donor at 18, by law, so that's not exclusive to Denmark?

Also, it's highly probable the donor won't respond to contact.

I think your DHs reasoning is callous, and I'd pause and go for counselling first.

[SquashPenguin]

@JustFrustrated I just wanted to say thank you so much for what you are about to do. We are about to use a UK egg donor and I wouldn’t even have a chance of being a mother without people as kind and selfless as you 🥹❤️

[JustFrustrated]

@SquashPenguin

@JustFrustrated I just wanted to say thank you so much for what you are about to do. We are about to use a UK egg donor and I wouldn’t even have a chance of being a mother without people as kind and selfless as you 🥹❤️

Ahhh that warmed my heart! Best of luck to you on your journey! X

[ConfusedKangaroo]

@JustFrustrated thank you for your reply, and for becoming a donor.

Our reason for looking abroad is that we have heard that Danish and Spanish clinics generally have a higher level of success than in the UK. Spanish donors are all anonymous though, which is why we are looking at Denmark (even if the donor didn't respond to contact in the future, we think it would be important for there to be information about who they are for the child).

We are very early in this journey, and I think counselling is essential for us - probably both together and separately - to sort out our feelings around everything and assess what the impact of any decisions we make will have on a potential child.

[Worddance]

That's a very big ask from your husband.

Is he aware of what he's asking?

Yes in some ways, given your age, you have a higher chance of a successful outcome if you use an egg donor as well. But it is a get big loss for you to take on unnecessarily. That said, I know people who are absolutely fine with having used egg donors after the initial disappointment.

It's not like adoption though.

[Caro678]

I think it would also be an idea for you to read some experiences of donor conceived people, so that you can get a realistic idea about how your child might feel in the future. There are communities online you could look at.

[Londisc]

@ConfusedKangaroo DH and I went for separate counselling because I wanted us to make sure we were being honest with ourselves as much as each other and felt our own separate processes were important for that.

I'm sure your DH is not callous but as he is probably sitting on a whole pile of frustration at the unfairness of life. There is so much underlying fear and shame involved in these situations and that can lead to irrational thoughts, feelings and behaviours. I'm glad you are going to get counselling. Infertility can feel so pressurized and can really cause us to lose sight of who we are at times - it's important to slow down and reconnect, to be able to act with authenticity.

[ASGIRC]

My story and journey is a bit different, as I am a SMBC, so was always going to be using donor sperm.

However, and after my initial fertility assessments, my age (I was nearly 40 then, 40 now!), my below average AMH, and the fact that I am a carrier for a genetic illness all made me decide, straight after I got my AMH results, that I would not be using my eggs.

I didnt have unlimited funds, and wanted to give myself the best chance at being a mother.
So I went with double donors. Not even egg donation and sperm donation, I ended up going with a full embryo donation.

It worked first time. I am currently 11 weeks pregnant. This child is not genetically related to me, but it is mine! And I will tell her how she came to be, in an age appropriate way.

but it is a very personal decision. I didnt struggle with my decision at all, and made it in a matter of hours after receiving my results.

But that doesnt mean it will be the same with you.
You need to think about it and decide what is best FOR YOU.

Portugal also has known donors now, FYI.

Good luck!

[daisypizza]

I'm a mum via egg donation. I struggled with the move from own eggs after multiple failed IVF rounds to donor eggs. If we had needed to use double donor that would have been one more step to consider. But I would not have considered it just to 'even things out'. I know parents by double donation, their DC are perfect for them but the decision to use double donation was either due to medical factors or because they were single women.

Like other posters I would also recommend counselling with someone who knows about infertility and donor conception. There may be a counsellor linked to your clinic or you can look online, on BACP website I think you can search by special interests of the counsellor. Separate sessions as mentioned by a PP sounds like a good idea.
I never would have considered going straight to egg donation unless I had been told I had actually zero chance with my eggs. I kept doing it with low odds, if I had been purely pragmatic the logical decision would have been to move to egg donation sooner, but I had seen people with worse stats than me get pregnant.

Anyway it sounds like you're going to explore counselling, it's important for your DH to have a space to explore what it means to him to have a genetically unrelated child, and for you to explore your options, and what you want separate to what he wants.

@ASGIRC congratulations on your pregnancy, I remember you from another thread. Hope you're feeling well!

[Mumofteenandtween]

I think that you need to consider what is best for the child - not what your husband thinks is “fair”.

Double donation will cause more complex emotions for the child than single.

Parenting isn’t about being fair to parents. Parenting is very very unfair in so many ways. Parenting is about voluntarily grabbing the shorty end of the stick Every Single Time so that your child can have the nice clean end.

[Zippedydoodahday]

It seems rather unfair of your partner to deny you the chance of a biological child, and your child the chance of being raised by their biological mother, just so he can feel better about not being able to be a biological father. I think counselling would definitely be helpful.

[Curtai]

Writing as someone who's done IVF and not had a baby I find the whole issue of donor egg and sperm ethically difficult. I don't like either and I find it difficult when reading OPs like yours where the potential impact on a future child isn't mentioned once or seemingly considered.

I've been to the donor conception network website and it's all lovely stories of happy families. Missing are the studies of donor sperm babies (more likely to be depressed, have mental health struggles, issues of identity, more likely to be abused by father figure) and egg donation babies (studies around difference in interaction Vs non donation babies, less emotionally responsive to their child, identity issues). Of course there aren't many studies like this because it's not really in anyone's interest to fund them, but there are a few if you dig.

Your husband's tit for tat view is not a nice one - I lose out so so do you and so does our child.

Do you want a child so much you'll stop at nothing to get one? Or do you have some boundaries?

[NotMyDayJob]

@curtai please do signpost us to these studies that show children born by sperm donation are more likely to be abused by their fathers

[Worddance]

What an odd, antagonistic question.

[MadeiraBaby]

Oh gosh dont
Wonders iof being a parent is seeing you and your family and partners traits in your child
How odd to have someone elses genetics and not yours
Use yours