We agreed on splitting assets and now we don't. Can I now ask for the court to decide or is it too late?

[Jeany1967]

My divorce with my husband has been quite amicable so far and my application for a conditional order has just now been accepted.
We'd agreed on how we were going to split our finances. We have saved money while we were together and will split this only.

We have been given money over our 20 years together from his family but he has always kept that in a separate account and he had money before we met. When we spoke of divorce (my decision mainly) he assumed that we'd just be splitting the money that we have accumulated since we've been together.

Am I being a tad naive? I was off work for around 3 years when we had our two young children and so he'd have slightly more pension then me. But another issue is that I moved out of the family home (rented) and left most of the furniture there and we have always agreed that it would all be split when we are divorced. He made a comment this morning about this possibly not happening so I just want to know where I stand?

The conditional order has been granted and I said that we agreed on how to split things on the initial divorce application but am I too late to ask the court to decide? I'm not saying I want to go for half the money his family have given us over the years (even though they gave it to us as a family) but I'm worried that once the divorce is finalised I won't receive anything from the house goods.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
J

Has there been any order about the finances or have you just come to an informal agreement so far?

How much is the cost of the house goods you are concerned with? It's unlikely to be worth the time, cost and uncertainty of court for a realtively small amount. It sounds as if you have been amicable so far, is there any way of reopening the conversation?

More importantly, I noticed that when you talked about his pension you sounded as if you were assuming rather than working from hard figures. Have you had proper financial disclosure and have you got a very clear picture of exactly what is in his pension and any other accounts? Have you had any legal advice? It's always a worry that the 'being amicable' is a way of pulling the wool over your eyes as to what's really at stake.

Thank you for your reply!

When I applied for the divorce I ticked the box that said we need a financial order but we have come to an agreement between ourselves. I've never received any financial advice as it's all been very amicable and I don't see the point in spending money for a solicitor to say what I'm entitled to (that I'm not going for).

From a moral point of view I don't think it's right for me to go for money that he had before he came to the UK and because his family have always put "family gifts" into his South African bank account its not here in our UK bank account (which we are splitting).

My husband is South African and has been in this country for the last 20 years. We've worked together for the last 14 years so apart from the time (roughly 3 years) I had off for maternity leave and before my children went to school we have paid in the same amount into our pensions. He had temp jobs for the first 5 years or so so wouldn't have paid into any pension prior to us working together.

I'd say the goods in the house would come to around £10k.

I'm really not wanting to just "go for what I'm entitled to" as I'm a very fair person (even though he's told me I'm the worst person alive for ending the marriage and splitting up the family).

Finances on divorce should basically be considered separately to the process of divorcing itself. You should get a financial order - known as a consent order - even when you agree how to split assets. It’s not too late to do this. This puts the split you agree on a formal legal basis and should give a “clean break”. If you don’t get this order, your ex could potentially have a claim on your assets in future. There can also be complications with transferring property etc. without an order.

You don’t need to actually go to court to get this order but will need a solicitor to draft it and it needs to be approved by a judge. If you agree this should be fairly cheap. As part of this process you fill in a form giving basic information about all of your assets which may be helpful to you.

If you don’t agree and can’t get to agreement via mediation etc you can ask the court to decide but this is expensive and to be avoided if at all possible.

I would think you may be able to negotiate him paying for some of the house contents in exchange for you agreeing not to go after gifts from his family which were kept separate.

Usual advice is not to finalise divorce until you get the financial order.

How old are your children op?
Do you know what the pension disparity is?

Hi, I don't think it's fair what you are asking, I mean to get the money his family gave.
In uiur Conditional application, did you specified the amount of the money to be shared and in particular the money kept in his account? If not, I don't think it is fair to ask for it.
Another point, the furniture, can you prove you purchased and/or contributed to the purchase?
Pension: you have been off work, so it's obvious he has a bit more, however, he worked for that, and to be fair, should be his money, not yours. Both of you worked, but you want more from his pension. Why?
I am under the impression you what his money and don't appreciate that while you were off work, he paid everything for you and guaranteed a roof over your head. This, doesn't repay you enough?

Well firstly she has clearly said she doesn’t want his family money and secondly she is asking about the legal position not the views of others as to what the right outcome would be.

Quite. She was out of work for three years raising the family while he continued to accumulate pensions and work experience. It's not fair that she doesn't benefit from that too.

Agree it's fair enough to not touch the DH family money but the rest should be split 50/50 at least but that should include pensions and belongings. You don't know how fair the arrangement is without the financial disclosure anyway. It's all very convenient for him not to disclose that.

Secondly,.. she said doesn't want all, but some.. and for legal advise should contact a lawyer. However legally if she did not contribute to any expenses, and not able to prove she paid for furniture, she will not get it.
Third I understand you don't like my view, however it is unfair to ask money if you decided to split up with your partner/husband.

How much money have his family given to the family over the years? Because this has been paid into a South African Bank - how much is this amount of money? I ask - because neither of you (presumably from what you say) has accessed any of this so it should really be considered a joint asset for the duration of the marriage. I understand that he may have had money before which you don't want to lay claim to which is fair enough.
The South African banks take a dim view of taking money out of South Africa so it maybe worth considering that it forms part of the financial settlement but that he pays half of it to you in British pounds from whatever funds he has here. He can then access the SA money when he returns home to see family or goes on holiday there.
You both sound young enough to still be accumulating your pensions individually so I wouldn't necessarily go after his pension. Just ask him to name your joint children as beneficiaries for their futures should he die unexpectedly while they are still in education.
As for furniture - assuming the children are going with you - I'd ask for their bedroom furniture so they are reasonably comfortable and not worry about anything else too much. This is meant to be a clean sheet/new life so leave that stuff behind (unless it's all valuable Chesterfields and antiques!! 😏) But you said around £10K for contents of the home - that isn't a very large sum in the grand scheme of things. Hardly seems worth it unless it is for sentimental reasons.

OP in answer to your question, no I don’t think it matters that you ticked that box initially. I remember the box you mean from mine.
If you were in agreement you’d now do the D81 and sign it and get the court to seal your financial order.
if you don’t agree you can get them to decide but I think you only do that after trying mediation etc and it’s expensive so don’t do it lightly! Have more of a go agreeing first, using mediation or solicitors and getting it all down in writing what’s happening to savings, contents etc.

Well you’re welcome to follow your view if you divorce but it’s not the legal position.

I'm sorry to disappointing you, but, my ex didn't get a penny as everything was paid by me.
A good argument in court, will give this outcome.
If you are a lawyer, you should know.

Your circumstances are not relevant to this thread but the law on distribution on divorce does not depend on who pays for the original purchase and it is not helpful to state otherwise.

Are any father in mumsnet?

As someone who went the court route (through to final hearing) for financial remedy I can tell you that

1. legally, financial and non financial contributions (e.g. home duties/ caring for children at the expense of a career) are both considered and reflected in any court outcome.
2. equality of income in retirement is considered important and for this reason, assuming full financial disclosure, the entire combined pension pot of both spouses is generally split 50-50 (and considered separately from other assets). This ensures protection for a spouse who has eg worked p/t to care for children.
3. any monies received from family/ inherited - if they have been capitalised into the joint act or used eg for joint house purchase, they are absolutely considered part of the marital 'pot' in a long marriage. If they have been retained in a personal act overseas that is v different, mostly because it is hard to evidence without a forensic accountant (v expensive).
4. judges have little interest in chattels/ household contents (and it makes no difference to them who paid for what) but you can and should get it written into the consent order that these will be split 50-50 or else be compensated to enable you to buy replacements.
5. as @Mia85 correctly states, you need a financial consent order and you should ensure there has been full financial disclosure beforehand and that the order has been checked by your solicitor before it is sent to court. This should be done before applying for the decree absolute. Failure to do this leaves you very vulnerable to future financial claims.

@Mia85 gives sound advice based on legal precedent. Make sure you protect your interests.

I got divorced after 20 years.
I brought a fair bit of assets into the marriage at the start- he didn't. I was by far the higher earner when we got together.
I also had an inheritance during the marriage.
I enabled his career by working around the children p/t when they were pre-school/ primary. He still earns much more than me.
Everything was included when we divided the assets.

I think after 20 years, everything is considered to ne part of the marital pot. i think a solicitor's advice on this should be helpful.

Do you rent or own your home?
Mortgaged or mortgage free?

Oh look, another bloke that thinks a woman should be disadvantaged by wrecking her body giving birth to and raising his children, losing out on pension and salary because she was on maternity leave, aka "not working"

And I bet you think that she should be paying for all childcare too don't you?

We have worked together for the last 14 years and have had accommodation as part of the job. We've never owned a house together or pay rent

In response to your question about the furniture. Yes I can totally prove that we jointly paid for ALL furniture as it came out of our joint account. We have worked together (identical salary to each other) for the last 14 years and the only time I wasn't contributing to the joint account was when I was off work having and raising our two young children. So yes, I can prove it and think I'm entitled to my fair share.

"However he worked for his pension whilst you were off"... 🤣 You sound like such a well rounded individual. No wonder you're on the divorce forum....