Coparenting and mother in law

[wildlingtribe]

Toxic coparenting, coercive control, and my ex lives with his mother who played a huge part in our break down.

My eldest has been alienated from me for 9 months.

My younger three still live at home.

But another thing is that my ex turned up and declared he is taking 2 of them on an abroad holiday tomorrow.

His mother apparently booked it without him knowing. And she did this without talking to him or me apparently. Whether he's lying I don't know.

He's also refused to give back the passports that I bought last year.

So much more to this but what do I do?

My daughter will hate me even more if I say no but he's breaking the law.

[GoldenDoor]

I don’t have any advice but I couldn’t read and run. Where are they going and do he/his mum have any links to family abroad?
Of course he knew about the holiday and this was planned to blindside you. Is there any urgent legal advice you can get, are you under a court order?

[GoldenDoor]

Also @wildlingtribe i’d repost this with a different title to get more responses. Your issue isn’t your MIL it’s your ex trying to take the children out the country illegally and imminently

[LemonTT]

I would say take a deep breath and decide what it is you want to achieve here. There is the potential for any and all decisions/action to blow up in your face and cause more strife in your relationships.

What does your CAO or any other agreement say about who the children will spend the next week with? Was it with you, their father or time with both of you.

How long is the holiday? Is it limited to the his time with them only or does it cover time you would have had them?

Would they benefit from this holiday? This isn’t the same as asking whether they prefer to stay with you. Were there existing plans for the school holidays and does this interfere with them? It isn’t clear how, why or even if this is disruptive to your time with the children. What about it bothers you?

How are you going to resolve and agree that this doesn’t happen again? Saying no and refusing to give permission is one way of asserting yourself but it is not without consequence. As it giving permission but insisting it doesn’t happen again.

I would also not ask the children what they want to do. It’s not fair making them choose and you could end up stressing them further into picking sides.

[wildlingtribe]

I have been given conflicting advice.

There isn't any CO in place yet.

The children of course want to go. It's a cruise around the med. he hasn't told me hardly any details at all.

His mother is a huge issue here. She books holidays for my children or days out without telling me. She believes she is in charge of the family.

One of my daughter in particular hasn't wanted to go to her dad's for a while, as she has seen how they've brainwashed her big sister. But a holiday is up for grabs here, so she has changed in 24hrs

[wildlingtribe]

Police have said they can't classify as an offence.

Schooling and other officials on GOV say he can't take them without my consent.

But like it's said here - the kids will resent one person for this. Me.

I don't get any financial help, never have done. I'm left with all finances, school trips to pay for etc. and also two younger children who are upset that they aren't going.

I also need their passports back after this.

[SharpLily]

Schooling and other officials on GOV say he can't take them without my consent.

Show him that information.

[thelengthspeoplegoto]

This is awful. They are forcing you to be the bad cop.
Obviously it's too late at the moment but you really need to get a solicitor involved.

[wildlingtribe]

The school have emailed him.

I have shown him the evidence.

But he has said "it's on you if you don't allow this, you'll be taking away an opportunity for the kids, it will be your fault"

[wildlingtribe]

The police have told me there's not much I can do.

[wildlingtribe]

I want to get a court order in place but I'm so worried for repercussions. That he's already turned one child against me, and they'll be leaving me one by one.

His mother has endless pots of money. So these trips will be a regular worry for my life.

[Changeandagoodrest]

He's taking 2 out of 4 children? What ages are they? What an asshole.

[LemonTT]

So it is essentially the older daughter who lives with him and the next oldest who wants to go on the trip.

I think you have to agree to the holiday if they are old enough to decide what they want to do. There is no point involving the police or courts if it is their choice.

Speak to a solicitor about 2 things.

1. securing a CAO that prevents this happening again
2. formally asking him to return the passports of the children who live with you.

Then submit a CMS claim.

[wildlingtribe]

CMS has been applied already but nothing heard yet, he isn't one for answering the phone to u known numbers.

I have decided I have no choice but to let them go, the way he has done with a couple of days notice is cruel. But children jump at the chance of an abroad holiday right.

I'm so worried about getting a CAO.

The school are involved and have said I need to do MaSH also.

[LemonTT]

The legal position is that, in the absence of a court order, neither of you can take a child out of the country without the other’s permission.

Most parents give agreement or it is dealt within the CAO. It is fairly pointless to block another parent taking their child on a foreign holiday. That parent can easily get court approval for a holiday unless there is a provable risk of abduction.

It s wrong for your ex not to have discussed this well in advance. I think you need to explain that and confirm what notice you would need of foreign holidays and why. I don’t see why you need notice or inclusion about days out or trips within the UK if they are in his time. You can ask him to let you know but you won’t have the right to demand it.

However I am not sure I agree with a response that involves the school, safeguarding, social services and police. Unless there is a backstory that’s a huge escalation and one that will impact on your older children. Because they may well be given voice in this process.

For what it is worth English social services won’t use the term parental alienation as they don’t recognise it. They will instead look at issues of emotional abuse. Which would stem for either or both parent putting children at the centre of their own dispute and weaponising the children. Examples include withholding access or telling lies about the other parent to the children.

[wildlingtribe]

There has been multiple situations of withholding information from my ex and my eldest child from me.

There has been lots of false allegations and it seems my child is now modeling how he feels through herself.

He told her that "your mum said she's scared of me" - so my daughter then told the school she is "scared of me"

He left our family home, but tells the children he was kicked out - our daughter saw the truth. But has suddenly sided with her dad.

There is a gigantic amount of gift buying, single treatment (the other three do not get this) and bad mouthing about myself to the children.

My eldest has since started doing the same thing to her dad's friends or people he knows - laughing and mocking her mums upset with her granny (he lives with his mum).

As for the Uk. I always respectfully tell him if I'm taking them out the county, as my father lives an hour away. I tell him when, and times. I also try to ask about us sharing time in general and at half terms. He on the other hand took the children to the seaside for three days without telling me. He takes them away and if the children call me, he tells them to say "we're just out" and it's usually on loudspeaker so he can hear me. I can tell the children sense This is wrong to not say where they are if they're having fun?

There's so much more to this.

Parental alienation is a term that isn't recognised I know. So I am petrified to try and talk about this. But for our 12 year old to feel one way for 2 years - then then switch to the opposite is worrying. She's not only left, but she has completely shut me and my whole family and friend network out. We have always been so loving and close.

[wildlingtribe]

The holiday for example - his mother books this without telling anyone. She conceals information (she knew about the beach situation and lied to my face when I was worried and didn't know where they were and I was expecting them home at 6pm) turns out she had packed their bags.

[wildlingtribe]

Another reason why he's only taken two is because he doesn't want me being alone.

If I'm alone - he thinks and tells the children I have people in my home.

I cannot lead any life because he makes sure of it. I have constant judgement, accusations to me, about me, to my kids.

If i was home for the afternoon, and if I go to the shop because I forgot I needed milk for example, he will tell the kids I have lied.

I can't even go for a meal with my best friends without him saying "I will look after the kids at your house - not his, that he will go when I get home" and off I say no he tells them I have someone in my house.

In actual fact - the trauma from broken trust and manipulation, the breaking down of myself from him and his evil mother - the pain he has caused me he makes me feel so on edge. The reality of my life is that I am a complete hermit who spends time with my dog if my kids aren't home.

[wildlingtribe]

Basically.

I have two options:

Tell him and the world that his version is true and bed him back.

Or he will continue to make my life hell.

Either way he will never be accountable.

[Daffodilsarentfluffy]

Report the passports lost /stolen. Whatever part you play or don't play in his batshittery he will blame you. But at least your dc are safe in their country.. My ex tried to turn our 3 against me. 2 moved away from him to me in time. Exh has died thank God but the relationship with dc 1 never fixed. Keeping your dc safe here is vital. He is breaking the law. In time your dc will know who is the actual parent and who is just a cunt.

[wildlingtribe]

Sorry for all the messages.

The last holiday we went on.

Before we boarded he took loads of sleeping pills, fell asleep before we took off. And ignored me the whole two weeks. He did the same on the way back. He booked the seat for our eldest daughter to be sat with HIS MOTHER.

He allowed two of our children to get in a taxi with their older cousins and go across a foreign city - when I had said no as I was waiting for them down by the pool. They were 8&12 at the time.

There's also concerns and proof of drink and drug misuse plus when he has the kids.

[wildlingtribe]

@Daffodilsarentfluffy
Sorry just realised how to tag.

It's been since last summer. I firmly believe I've lost her. I'm honestly crushed. And I'm petrified he is picking them off one by one.

He knows the only way to hurt and punish me is through the kids. He knows how devoted I am. And that I have no life outside of them - he makes sure of that.

[MsPavlichenko]

He isn’t going to change. He is controlling and abusive. The dynamic of your relationship is continuing even though you are separated.

You are so emeshed it’s impossible to see the wood from the trees, and you are understandably overwhelmed. You can change yourself, and how you respond to him. This will make your life, and those of your children so much better. You can lose the fear. They won’t see this type of abusive relationship as the norm.

Call WA, they can offer advice and support. Do the Freedom Programme as a start. You can do this, please call them .

[wildlingtribe]

My eldest has said "why would I come home when I have my own room, tv, fridge in my room, have any apps I want, stay up late, my school is right next door, my best friend lives next door, I go with dad wherever I want. Why would I?

She walks past me everyday at school. Blanks me. Despite me waving and saying hi.

If she responds. She says (without fail) hi, (with eye roll) I'm going now, I want to get back "I'm cold".

[Daffodilsarentfluffy]

I didn't see ds 14 for a year. Exh let him do drugs and sell them , have parties, no school,. Then ds text me out of the blue and moved here. Didn't see df for a long time. Bide your time and stay mentally strong op. It is gruelling. But you must parent your dc your way and keep going..

[TheFormidableMrsC]

OP, you need to get this before a judge. Take away his power and take back some control. I'd be reporting the passports stolen or lost, you do not want your kids going overseas with this psychopath. You can apply for an emergency prohibited steps order to stop him taking them. The hearing will usually be same day. I would do that today.

The CMS won't ring him. They take their information from HMRC and will tell him what he must pay. If he doesn't pay, they will take direct from his salary (presuming he's not self employed).

These men prey on your fear, the love you have for your children. I'd not give a second thought to the kids being pissed off, you're doing this for their safety.