Is Form E Compulsory in divorce? Not sure about solicitor....

[smoothieooo]

Quick background: STHex and I separated 3 years ago and I initiated divorce proceedings at the end of April. We have 2 teenage DS and he has paid the full mortgage in lieu of child support since he left.

It took over a month from the initial meeting, but my sol sent me the paperwork including the dreaded Form E.

STBex and I have had a discussion whereby we have loosely agreed that we will sell the house when DS2 is 18 (he's 15 currently) and split the equity 60:40 in my favour (partly because I'll need to buy somewhere for the DC and I and also because I'm 8 years older) and in the meantime, we will split the mortgage and he will pay child support.

I asked my sol via email whether instead of Form E we could have a Consent Order drawn up with what we had agreed. 2.5 weeks later, she has come back to me to request that I DO complete the form and we could discuss it at a meeting. But STBex's sol has told him that we could proceed with the divorce and complete a 3-page Form D81 with the financials. I'm feeling bit emotional and fragile (and therefore probably a bit paranoid at the mo) but am not sure whether STBex has a bit of an agenda where finances are concerned or whether my sol is just trying to get her money's worth.

I'd be so grateful for a bit of advice... it's such a hideous business!

[smoothieooo]

Hi Bells - my ex hasn't been paying into a pension for very long (he's 8 years younger than me) and my pension has a fairly good cash-in value so I stand to lose more on that front. I would be very surprised to find that he had hidden assets and it has to be said that he's been pretty good regarding money for the last 3 years and very good about seeing the DC often, and I do trust him (to a certain extent)!

[BellsaRinging]

smoothieooo, I presume that your solicitor is onto this, but have you obtained details about his pension? Do you have a decent pension yourself? It seems to me that this is a potentially valuable asset that has been missed off, particularly if, for e.g. he is in the police/public sector/final salary scheme. Apologies if this has already been covered.

[lavenderhoney]

My ex dh won't answer any questions on his form e for months now and is holding up everything, insisting my sol and I just believe him and go along with his proposal of settlement, which his sol says is dependent on me agreeing to his access to the DC as and when. This seems so wrong, he is bartering with the DC.

I have also found that his debts which are huge and in his name only and I didn't know he had, are actually considered to be my debts too and I might end up having to give him money. So my being frugal and prudent was a waste of time.

[Spero]

Xh brought no assets to our short marriage and didn't contribute anything financially to our outgoings. He is offering a clean break and not making any claim on my pension or on my house (everything is in my name only). He is useless with money and has very little pension provision, lots of debt and a job that doesn't pay well. He pays a contribution to dd which isn't too far off what it should be going by the government calculator

I can't see much risk in that scenario of the Form E revealing much. Particularly as it was a short marriage. BUT you do have a child to consider and the impact that will have on your ability to earn/build up a pension.

I think any solicitor is going to advise he fills it in but if you are confident that is the position, I agree that there is probably little point. But if you do discover that he had some Swiss bank accounts down the line, you won't be able to do anything about it!

[purplesprings]

are there risks I should have said

[purplesprings]

babybarrister - is the risk that he could have a secret source of income or potential inheritance? He will stand to inherit something but this won't be a huge amount as his siblings would contest an unequal division even though they all have assets & pensions and he is living in his parent's spare room with little prospect of being able to afford to move out.

Or is there other risks I haven't considered?

[purplesprings]

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have the same question but from a different perspective. Xh's solicitor has sent me the short from setting out his financial situation. Xh brought no assets to our short marriage and didn't contribute anything financially to our outgoings. He is offering a clean break and not making any claim on my pension or on my house (everything is in my name only). He is useless with money and has very little pension provision, lots of debt and a job that doesn't pay well. He pays a contribution to dd which isn't too far off what it should be going by the government calculator.

Is there a good reason for me to want a Form E or is the short from sufficient?

[smoothieooo]

I spoke to my Sol who is going to request a great deal of the info from Form E, without ex-H having to complete the form. So... she's going to request:

P60
Last 3 wage slips
Schedule of all bank accounts
Details of any savings accounts / pensions
Bank statements for the last 6-12 months

I'm much happier about this - it gives the necessary info but looks to ex-H like I'm meeting him half way. Phew!

[smoothieooo]

Henrietta I'll let you know what sol says when I speak to her later.

I think that my ex-H just can't be arsed to fill the form in rather than is worried about what will be disclosed. He's paid the equivalent of half the mortgage plus child support for the last 3 years without fail so I do trust him to a certain extent.

My sol costs are such that I'm having to scrape together ?400 a month on account which is a difficult to say the least and another reason for having a less drawn out process!

[HenriettaBarnet]

Spero, you also have to have the cash to chase up the Form E. I don't have the cash for a long drawn out court battle and H knows that.

[HenriettaBarnet]

smoothieooo I'd be interested in hearing what your solution is. My stbxh had an absoulte hissy fit yesterday when I insisted on the Form E and then he withdrew his offer!! it was ridiculous - he sent me really unpleasant emails and completely overreacted I think.

Do you have to file Form E at court or can it just be used to inform the solicitor so that they feel they can advise you?

I was actually quite happy with what he'd suggested, but now I'm starting to think he's hiding something (not extra money, but maybe that he's moved in with someone else). I have had access to some of my stbx's information so I know what he's earning, but I suppose there could be a hidden cash sum somewhere.

[smoothieooo]

Thanks all. I did the sensible thing and put my thoughts to my sol. We're going to have a conversation later about a half way solution - i.e. something not as incredibly detailed as the Form E but not as basic as the D81. I feel that what my ex-H and I have discussed is pretty fair and I would be very surprised to find he had hidden assets (he's 41 and has only just starting paying into a pension)!

[Spero]

I completely agree with all that is said about importance of Form Es.

BUT if 'what is on the table' represents a sum of money that could provide you with a stable and secure future, it is not crazy to consider whether you do simply agree to that now.

If your ex is a complete twat, they will drag this on for as long as possible. You do need to weigh up the emotional costs of continuing in court proceedings for possibly many many months.

its about weighing up the different harms - take a deal which is on the table now, but which might represent only a small fraction of what you would get after a contested hearing.

OR insist on full and frank financial disclosure and chase down everything. This is likely to result in a bigger settlement, but it will take time and it will be emotionally draining.

I don't think these are worthless considerations but any solicitor will want to protect him/herself from you getting angry after the event if you discover the full extent of the failure to disclose assets.

Personally, anyone who objected to filling in a Form E would find me chasing them for the next ten years, as I would assume they were trying to hide something very important. But not everyone has the stamina for that.

Its about being honest with yourself - what's more important to you and the rest of your life? If the deal on the table is crap or not very good, don't be bullied into taking it. But if you think the deal is not bad, give it some thought.

[smoothieooo]

Thanks all - much appreciated advice. I need to bite the bullet, fill it in and close my ears to the rants of ex-H. After all, we wouldn't be in this position had he not traded me in for a younger model!

I just hope that what I end up being entitled to is roughly what is on the table at the moment.

[oldfatandtired1]

The form e looks horrendous. For most people, it really isn't. It's house, savings, pensions, salaries basically. Fill it in. You can't really proceed without it.

[HenriettaBarnet]

If you subsequently reach a settlement using a form D81, does the Form E get filed at court or is it just used to inform the solicitor advising you what your stbxh's financial position is?

I think that my H is more likely to file the Form E if he thinks it is just the solicitor who sees it.

(mine is avoiding filling it in because he doesn't want to declare all of his past income for tax reasons, or so he says. His future income is just an estimate at this stage so he can put anything in really).

[foxinsocks]

There is a short form E? That's what I filled in

[Mumblechum1]

Exactly what Spero said.

[ex divorce lawyer]. The solicitor needs to cover her back, and you should only skip Form E if you've always had full access to all of your husband's bank accounts etc so know at least roughly what his situ is.

[Spero]

I would imagine she is trying to protect you and protect herself. The only reason someone would want to avoid a Form E is because they are trying to hide assets. If you reach an agreement and later find out that they had other assets they hadn't declared, you might turn round and blame your solicitor.

But if you are prepared to sign a waiver and say you are doing it against their advice, can't see the problem.

Personally, I wouldn't settle without being pretty confident i had full and frank disclosure. But equally I can see why you might just want to get it over with.

[Mumfun]

Yes I know of a couple of current divorces where the husbands have completely ripped off the ex wives by either persuading them to be amicable or being so awful that the wife just wanted it over. Self employed are a nightmare as they can cook the books but still. There is a good reason to avoid Form E - if you think you can save yourself a large amount of money by avoiding it.