Can he insist on holiday dates?

[hotdiggitydawg]

We have a court order saying term time pattern continues throughout holidays, (Me having DS Wed and Thurs, ex DH having him Mon and Tue and us alternating weekends.) with an additional one week for each parent (7 nights) at Easter, an additional week each at Xmas and two separate additional weeks each during the summer.
Court only finished in Oct last year, so so far we've only dealt with the Xmas hols (ExDH decided he wouldn't take up the 7 day hol option) and the Easter hols (ExDH took up the 7 day hol option, but stayed in his flat for five days then took him camping 2 nights).
Now we are approaching summer. Do the dates have to be agreed between us or is it ok for him to dictate his dates, giving me no choice? He has emailed to say he is taking DS away July 23rd for 7 days. My son's oldest friend's parents are getting married July 25th and it is a three day wedding weekend, events on the Fri nite, Sat and Sun. We have all been super excited about it and looking forward to it for a year or more. I checked the calander and that weekend was one which I would have care of DS, so in April this year I rsvp'd to say yes and booked accommodation and they have ordered special meals for my son even who has allergies. DS knows about it. Ex DH didn't know about it as he never talks to me except to threaten me. I did not think I would need to inform him as it was a weekend DS was timetabled to be with me. BUt horror of horrors, he's now emailed to say he's taking him away that week!
I said I'm so sorry we already have long standing plans for that weekend and explained the wedding, rsvp, DS's oldest friend, etc. Even outlined the list of fun events they are putting on for the kids all weekend which DS knows about.
Ex DH is saying tough; the entire holiday period is up for grabs and first to communicate their dates, gets them.
I haven't specifically asked the lawyer about this as it's Saturday and I've run out of money to keep asking lawyers stuff, but they did say in response to a previous, query of mine that I can tell him "Sorry those dates are not convenient" when arranging our period of 7 days over the hols.
I've explained that we need to check with the other parent when arranging our 7 day hol period to ensure there are not clashes and agree dates. But he says the court order means all dates are up for grabs and first come first served, so he's taking him. Is this true?
My ds will be devastated to miss the wedding weekend. He also finds it very hard spending prolonged periods with his father (Dad with nasty temper, etc.) , but that's another story.
Can anyone advise?
My instinct is to just reply again saying
"we need to consult with the other parents to arrange dates for our 7 day hols, and unfortunately that weekend is not available as we are at a wedding." BUt he is saying I am going against the court order.
The court order just says "Two seperate additional weeks with each parent during the summer hols, following which the term time pattern recommences." It says nothing abbot how those 7 day periods are agreed.

[undoubtedly]

Yes OP that's what I would have understood by it too.

He needs to agree any time that is usually yours (the 7 days) beforehand. I think you can safely stick to your guns. What you do on "your" time is none of his business.

[RandomMess]

I guess next time something is happening on one of your weekends during school holidays ask for it as a week that DS will be with you. It's just unfortunate this has happened so early one. However moving forward I would offer his Dad his pick of weeks for 2016 and that they be set in stone.

[undoubtedly]

But does it not go both ways? So if you timed your holiday for certain days he'd be with you up to 12 days too?

[undoubtedly]

I wouldn't worry too much about the 12 day thing until it happens.

Do you think your DS won't cope with the 7 day stretches? If so, why did you agree to it/was it granted?

Is he a danger to your kids? Or do you just need to encourage DS a bit and build up to the full 7 days?

[hotdiggitydawg]

Sorry about the deleted posts. I said TOO MUCH!!

So... I replied to him saying:
"When arranging our 7 day holiday periods, we need to consult with the other parent and agree on dates. Unfortunately I can’t agree the dates you propose as ds and I are due at a wedding that weekend. I will work hard to accommodate your preferred dates going forward, but unfortunately we are away the weekend of July 24th, 25th, 26th. DS would be upset to miss this event, and he must be at the heart of any decisions regarding holiday dates.
I'm sure we can work together to find other suitable dates for our 2 holiday periods of 7 days each. "

He's simply replied
"This is not agreed"


I had to talk to my lawyer today re something else and they confirmed the term time pattern remains in the hols and these 7 day periods have to be built in BY AGREEMENT. So going away on a weekend DS is due to be with me seems ok, him insisting on his dates for a 7 day hol, despite me not agreeing them seems not ok. But what happens now?
How do you deal with it if your exdh's hold onto the kids to enforce their will? (EXDH has form for this)

[HeadDoctor]

Then surely you could book things on all of the days your child is due to be with you and leave your ex hardly any choice? My experience of family courts is they are less interested in what an order says and more interested in what the impact on the child will be.

[hotdiggitydawg]

The impact on ds would be he'd miss an event he has been looking forward to and at which his best friends will be. I've said I will work hard to accommodate his preferred dates but this wedding is a long standing arrangement and is one ds is looking forward to and is only 3 days. Obviously if I booked up every weekend all summer I would be being entirely unreasonable. As it stands this is the only thing I have on all summer.

[TheWintersmith]

I was thinking about this last night.

Although he is being a dick, I can imagine how he sees he is in the right from his POV.

I would play him back at his own gone and just reply ' this is not agreed' when he mentions the holiday.

Or

Bounce it back, tell him Ok, he gets first dibs but HE must break the news to your son, and manage fallout, then hint broadly that you are well chuffed as you rather fancied a child free weekend at the wedding so you can live it up a little and chase that hot single bloke who is also attending he might well do a 180 if he suspects he is enabling your social life.

Hope you get this sorted OP

[hotdiggitydawg]

Thank you. I will just do the broken record technique of repeating what I've said about it needing to be agreed. It is a new thing this standing up to him. He has dictated to us for years. I'm not scared of him anymore so am gonna stand my ground.
He would not be bothered about breaking the news to ds. It would not occur to him to consider his feelings.
I will continue to be reasonable but assertive and stand up for what I think is right for ds. For what it's worth, if it was a normal wedding and exDH was wanting to take DS to an exciting kiddy holiday park, I'd happily say yes and not take DS to the wedding, but it's v child oriented with loads of activities laid on for the whole weekend, his best buddies are going and he's looking forward to it.

[TheWintersmith]

Ah, well if it is a new thing to stand up to him, it might take a little while for him to believe it is actually happening.

I'm going through this a bit with an overbearing family member, I've just finished a course of CBT and have stood up to them for the first time ever (am mid forties) and it has all gone very odd! You can see them thinking 'Winter said no' ++does not compute++

It would be funny if I didn't have the baggage of being treated as irrelevant for most of my life.

[hotdiggitydawg]

It is a new experience. Wish I'd known how to stand up for myself and ds years ago.

[RandomMess]

He's such a prick but then you know that and that is why he's your ex!!!

It's really horrid when the other parent refuses to consider the dc's needs/wants and just wants to "win"

[Alanna1]

I'd make sure you tell him in your emails why DS is looking forward to it, say it is booked and has been since you RSVP'ed ages ago, that his best friend is going too, and ask him why he couldn't go to wherever he is planning on the monday / take any different 7 days in a 6 week period, etc, and ask him what he is planning so that you can both properly discuss what is in your DS's best interests etc?

[undoubtedly]

Agree with your last point OP, you are perfectly reasonable to book a weekend wedding away with your son on your weekend.

Your ex is not reasonable to book his holiday without agreeing it.

Ask your lawyer what happens if exh hangs onto DS. You might be able to get the order changed to prevent it.

[hotdiggitydawg]

Thanks. It's so hard to deal with him. Nothing goes smoothly. He seems very invested in fighting me on everything and anything.

[undoubtedly]

Yes I have one like that too

Disengaging helped me in the end. He doesn't get a rise, so eventually he got bored of trying. I stick rigidly to the court order and any changes go through the lawyers. Sad but necessary.

[hotdiggitydawg]

He's interpreting the court order to mean all summer dates are up for grabs, and first come first served.
But believe me, if I'd come up with that interpretation first because I wanted to book a hol during a weekend when he'd already got plans, he would then interpret the court order a COMPLETELY different way.

[undoubtedly]

Of course he would!

Set up a clear paper trail where you tell him when the wedding was booked and offer him reasonable alternative dates.

Then ignore the whole issue unless he goes to court over it.

Not your problem. Don't let him drag you into the drama.

[hotdiggitydawg]

He;s due to have ds a few days up until the 22nd, so I fear he won't bring him back on the 22nd in order to take him away on the 23rd. The court order doesn't say exact dates. Would police get involved if he didn't return him?

[HeadDoctor]

He cannot take your child out of the country without your permission.

[undoubtedly]

He can, if it's under 30 days.

Do you have ds's passport?

[hotdiggitydawg]

DH hasn't got a passport as he came round demanding to search the house for his passport a few months ago and left empty handed (and cross) He doesn't have a passport for ds either.
I just think he'll not bring him home so he can have this weeks hol.