Is it ever ok for a Father to not pay child support?

[LivelySoul]

Hey

I am posting here as I do want men's opinions as well as womens...

I recently had this conversation with two of my male friends and I found it really interesting and wondering what the consensus is on this.

Should a man who has fathered a child always be held financially responsible for their children? For an example two consenting adults have a one night stand, woman finds out she is pregnant and goes ahead with the pregnancy, the father did not, should he be liable to pay for his child?

The case that sparked our conversation was in a nutshell, married couple can't have children, find a surrogate, during the term of surrogates pregnancy she decides to keep the baby (which she is legally aloud to do) once this child was born she denies all access but claims for child support which the biological father has to pay, however as he is not on the birth certificate and fails to get access...

What do you all think?

[lostdad]

In response to the OP's question: That goes for both parents.

Both parents have a duty to provide in all ways for children. It's not the responsibility of either to financially provide neither is it the responsibility of either to care.

Welcome to the 21st Century!

[oopsadaisyme]

My 4 year olds 'father' walked out on us quite a few months ago - he has a new 'wife to be' (was cheating for quite a while), took us for every penny we had, while stashing money, now changed his surname, no contact details, nothing - its impossible to chase for child support - but left us in a world of debt -

But hear he has holidays a plenty and making a fortune - facebook via

[fifi669]

www.democraticunderground.com/11149730

[fifi669]

Male....

[fifi669]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer

Statutory rape of a make in the US who then had to pay child support

[claraschu]

I don't think it is so simple. If a woman decides to keep a baby, when her actions and words have told a man she would terminate if she got pregnant, I think she is sometimes wholly responsible for the baby.

[hmsdad71]

A father should always pay Child Support. It should always be in line with wjat they can afford though and the mother should also allow the father fair and unrestricted access unless extenuating circumstances prevail. Any father who doesnt pay because they cant be arsed isnt fit to be a father as they clearly shirk financial responsiblity. Obviously some fathers arent in a position financially to pay so shouldnt be punished because of this.

[ReadyToPopAndFresh]

the woman has 100% of the power to decide if a pregnancy comes to term so should bare 100% of the financial burden if the man did not consent to become a father.


Fuck someone and you consent to becoming a father.

HTH

[ReadyToPopAndFresh]

ONS scenario if you dont want to be a dad..don't have sex. It's always a risk

OP's scenario with the surrogate. NO that would be devastating an.

Woman raping a man scenario mention by toadinthehole if that were proven hopefully the women would be considered a sex offender and not in charge of the child. It would be adopted and not the man's responsibility unless he wanted custody?

The sperm donor for the two lesbian women, think that was wrong and that the man should never have had to pay.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Init - of course it is difficult for the father if he would prefer a pregnancy to continue, we can sympathise just as we would, say, with a husband whose wife had opted out of an unpleasant medical treatment that might prolong her life at the expense of its quality. We can sympathise without it changing the facts.

Agree that the onus is on all NRPs to responsibly pay child support, male or female.

[InitForTheCake]

There are loads of men who just walk away from their biological children and act like they don't even exist. The woman is always left with the task of bringing the child up so the least the man can do is to pay child support.

^

See this generalization drives me bonkers. The fact that my DSD M refuses to pay a penny towards either DSD or her half sister (not my DHs child) who also lives with us as M has lost interest, means it is unlikely we can afford to have a second DC ourselves. M refuses to pay because she doesn't want to, and has continued to have further DC.

Women are not always left with the task of bringing up the child. We are by no means unusual in this situation. Yes there are deadbeat dads, but there are deadbeat mums too.

And in the case where a women can terminate a pregnancy; as is her right; without the consent or against a father's wishes; can we at least acknowledge how difficult that is for the potential father? In the case where the pregnancy is planned and the woman changes her mind?

It's not all black and white.
Trying to enforce black and white 'facts' on situations that fall somewhere in the wide spectrum of grey without at very least acknowledging the heartbreaking complications is; in my view; plain wrong.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

When a man and a woman have sex, they can make a baby.

We learn this in biology age 11.

If a woman is pregnant, she can choose whether or not to continue the pregnancy.

We learn this in PSHE age 13.

Men and women bear financially responsiblity for their biological children unless adopted.

This is the law which is widely known.

If you cannot understand these three facts, whether or not you "agree" with them, you aren't mature enough to be having sex.

[Toadinthehole]

It is (or should be) a matter for social services if a mother is not looking after her child properly. I fail to see how it can ever be in the interests of the child for the father to unilaterally refuse to provide financial support.

Of course, if the father has custody, the same principle applies to the mother.

But the basic point remains. If you don't want to get a woman pregnant, don't shag her.

[trooperlooperdo]

not when the mother spends all the money on alcohol, tatoos, clothes, eating out and drugs for herself and the father buys all the clothes for the children when they visit him. The mother gets over £1000 in child tax credits and child benefit per month. In that situation the father shouldn't have to give the mother anything!

[BadChat25]

mat690

Wow... It's not exactly an easy decision for a woman you know. Any man who has sex with a woman (especially without contraception) should know it's a possibility that she could fall pregnant. He has an obligation to provide financially for his child as much as the woman does.

[mat690]

the woman has 100% of the power to decide if a pregnancy comes to term so should bare 100% of the financial burden if the man did not consent to become a father.

[FastLoris]

There are obviously some situations in which a man should not have to pay child support. For example if a family has a stay at home dad and full time working mother, the parents split up and the children stay with the dad. Surely the mother should then be the one paying child support, according to exactly the same reasoning why men normally have to pay it?

It seems to me the whole argumen about child support suffers from an assumption of men being the financial provider and women the nurturer. I thought we were supposed to be moving beyond that assumption?

Other than that, some interesting angles in this thread. Will need to come back and read more thoroughly...

[caruthers]

Of course child support should be paid in the usual circumstances but that child support has to be financially relevant to the wages of the father.

For example if a father was on a low wage supporting his family and that family was poor as a consequence then it stands to reason that a salary that is of that amount can't afford to keep two homes running.

Fathers who shirk when they can afford get my goat just as much as the feckless mothers who withhold contact because they feel like it.

Children first and adults second ALWAYS!!

[EirikurNoromaour]

Men should know that a baby, fatherhood and financial responsibility could all arise every time they have sex. Women know that pregnancy, a baby and motherhood could arise. If a baby does arise then both parents should take responsibility to whatever degree is appropriate. For men, the minimum is financial support.
I don't think the argument that women can choose abortion holds any weight to be honest. Pregnancy is a physical condition happening to a woman's body and can only be ended by the woman whose body is pregnant. A baby is an individual person with human rights, opting out of fatherhood/financial support is not equivalent to terminating a pregnancy.
Choice comes into play for men before making the decision to have sex. There are alternatives to risking pregnancy, there is avoiding PIV sex, there is using a condom properly, there is choosing to only have PIV sex with a partner who is using hormonal bc.

Surrogacy is a separate issue. Morally, a woman who takes sperm from a friend for surrogacy purposes shouldn't expect financial support IMO. But legally she can, if they haven't taken the precautions of going through official channels. I would never advise a man to agree to informal surrogacy.

[fifi669]

Did you not see the case that came up recently? 82 court orders over 12 years, the mum defied them all.

[Toadinthehole]

42

I think it's a bad situation for a man to find himself in. However, unless he has no rights at all, it would follow that he would be entitled to force the woman to carry the baby to term, give birth, and then give the baby up. That cannot be preferable.

Once again, the clear lesson (which it has to be said has echoes down the ages) is don't have one-night stands.

[basgetti]

And 'she knew the risks before doing it'. The remedies for the woman cannot be compared to paying child support. Both options for her are very physically invasive and carry risks to both physical and mental health.

[basgetti]

No he doesn't have the right to force her to keep the baby. It is just how biology works. The man can exercise his choices pre conception by using contraception. The woman then has further choices if pregnancy occurs by virtue of the fact that she carries the entire physical burden and risk. The choices at this stage are unequal because the biology is unequal.

[TheMeaningOfLifeIs42]

Just wondering what opinions are on one night stands where the guy wants the baby and the lady doesn't (I don't have an opinion either way just wondering) should he have any rights then to keep the baby and make her pay csa as she knew the risks before doing it

[Toadinthehole]

fifi

A man who has a one-night stand exercises choice. He can choose not to have the one-night stand. Unless he is educationally subnormal, or extremely misinformed, he will know the risks.

Women who are awarded custody of the children, and who therefore incur the costs of raising them, should be entitled to financial support from the father. If a woman is maliciously refusing contact, I would have thought legal action would have been the appropriate remedy. That said, I am surprised when I read the experiences of people here who are UK-based: I am beginning to wonder if shared parenting is relatively uncommon there. I do also wonder whether the courts are pretty inflexible in their approach to varying custody orders.