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Violence against women - how we tune out of it..

114 replies

Pan · 02/11/2013 12:51

Interesting TED Talk about this issue and how we see such violence as women's issues.
It's about 17 mins long BUT your attention will be grabbed within seconds.



It covers the whole matter much in the way as I see it.
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lostdad · 11/11/2013 08:43

Fair enough. I can understand you not wanting to discuss this because it is does appear that some of your assertions seem to be more based on your personal believes rather than actual data.

Cognitive dissonance I think it is called...Wink

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BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 12/11/2013 20:10

I watched the video all the way through, Pan, thanks for posting it.

Was interesting, I've never really heard that idea expressed before but of course it makes a lot of sense.

Basic summary for those who haven't watched - it's not enough to say, 'Yeah, violence is bad, mmkay?' - men should be challenging their fellows whenever they come out with sexist or disrespectful stuff.

Although in fact, when I was in my 20s, colleagues would come out with stupid sexist jokes/comments and I would laugh along, because no-one wants to be That Guy, the one with no sense of humour (and I'm a woman...)

So I guess he's right saying it's a leadership issue. It's only when you develop the confidence and the seniority to say, 'Actually you're wrong there' that you can start to gradually change the prevailing culture.

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Pan · 12/11/2013 20:41

yes Boulevard it manages to re-analyse the way we often assume stuff without actually thinking about it.

On the leadership thing, here is a 3 min clip that bowled me over. In it the leader manages to address just about everything that a leader should, at all times, and esp at a time of crisis. Shared leadership, culture setting, performance issues, PR, boundary setting, inclusiveness, moral standards, public service. The stuff Jackson pointed toward at the end.



It could be the bases of seminars on a whole variety of leadership topics, incl abusive behaviours.
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SagaciousOne · 16/11/2013 11:24

I'm Sorry this a long post but I feel that this really needs to be read before we start to say violence is a male problem.... I got this from the Guardian.

More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals
Campaign group Parity claims assaults by wives and girlfriends are often ignored by police and media

Denis Campbell
The Observer, Sunday 5 September 2010


DOMESTIC VIOLENCE BY WOMEN AGAINST MEN
Assaults on men represent more than 40% of domestic violence in the UK. Photograph: Sakki/Rex Features/Sakki/rex

About two in five of all victims of domestic violence are men, contradicting the widespread impression that it is almost always women who are left battered and bruised, a new report claims.

Men assaulted by their partners are often ignored by police, see their attacker go free and have far fewer refuges to flee to than women, says a study by the men's rights campaign group Parity.

The charity's analysis of statistics on domestic violence shows the number of men attacked by wives or girlfriends is much higher than thought. Its report, Domestic Violence: The Male Perspective, states: "Domestic violence is often seen as a female victim/male perpetrator problem, but the evidence demonstrates that this is a false picture."

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

Similar or slightly larger numbers of men were subjected to severe force in an incident with their partner, according to the same documents. The figure stood at 48.6% in 2006-07, 48.3% the next year and 37.5% in 2008-09, Home Office statistics show.

The 2008-09 bulletin states: "More than one in four women (28%) and around one in six men (16%) had experienced domestic abuse since the age of 16. These figures are equivalent to an estimated 4.5 million female victims of domestic abuse and 2.6 million male victims."

In addition, "6% of women and 4% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse in the past year, equivalent to an estimated one million female victims of domestic abuse and 600,000 male victims".

Campaigners claim that men are often treated as "second-class victims" and that many police forces and councils do not take them seriously. "Male victims are almost invisible to the authorities such as the police, who rarely can be prevailed upon to take the man's side," said John Mays of Parity. "Their plight is largely overlooked by the media, in official reports and in government policy, for example in the provision of refuge places – 7,500 for females in England and Wales but only 60 for men."

The official figures underestimate the true number of male victims, Mays said. "Culturally it's difficult for men to bring these incidents to the attention of the authorities. Men are reluctant to say that they've been abused by women, because it's seen as unmanly and weak."

The number of women prosecuted for domestic violence rose from 1,575 in 2004-05 to 4,266 in 2008-09. "Both men and women can be victims and we know that men feel under immense pressure to keep up the pretence that everything is OK," said Alex Neil, the housing and communities minister in the Scottish parliament. "Domestic abuse against a man is just as abhorrent as when a woman is the victim

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Pan · 16/11/2013 12:54

Sagacious - I see you've been busy across DN with the same post on other threads, but this isn't what the subject of this thread is. No-one is underplaying the incidence of female violence. IF you wish to draw attention to that, I'd politely suggest you commence a thread about it.

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Toadinthehole · 16/11/2013 19:52

I have also asked "what about the menz" on other DV threads. Sometimes it is a point that does need to be made.

However, I don't agree that DV by a woman against a man is a problem of the same magnitude. It is true that men are, in general, stronger than women. If Mrs Toad tried to slap me around, she would get nowhere. If I tried (God forbid) to slap Mrs Toad around, there would be very little she could do.

The point is clear: men are responsible for using their strength responsibly.

There is of course non-physical violence, and women can engage in that too. It is interesting that while traditionally, it was legal for a man to beat his wife, society sanctioned the wife who scolded her husband. So, while society was quite happy for the shrew to be put into a scold's bridle, it approved of the man who gave her a black eye her in response to her scolding. The sad truth is that the man who is beaten up by his wife isn't going to get much of a hearing against this historical background, and probably won't until it is clear that most DV is perpetrated by women against men.

So come folks - DV against anyone is a foul crime, but if men were to turn away from it en masse there would be no hiding place for women who continued to perpetrate it against men or, for that matter, children. Therefore it is quite proper for DV to considered by men as a men's issue for men to respond to.

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Toadinthehole · 16/11/2013 19:53

Re above post: for "sanctioned" please read "condemned" - the latter being a less ambiguous term. Apologies.

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Paleodad · 16/11/2013 20:01

Jesus Christ sagacious stop posting this! if you have actually rtft then you'll see this has been discussed several times!
as Pan says, start a thread if you want, but don't wake the zombies just to ram home your point.

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Paleodad · 16/11/2013 20:02
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Toadinthehole · 16/11/2013 20:08

Seconded.

Sagacious - you've made your point.

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TheDoctrineOfWho · 16/11/2013 20:12

British crime survey 2010-11

Figures from p21 onwards. By my calculations, they work out at around 30% of partner violence victims being male, with no info on the sex of partners.

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BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2013 10:55

"The sad truth is that the man who is beaten up by his wife isn't going to get much of a hearing against this historical background, and probably won't until it is clear that most DV is perpetrated by women against men."

Does that mean that you think that we should just ignore it? that we should "une it out"?

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SigmundFraude · 17/11/2013 12:06

It is definitely tuned out. As long as men are classed as disposable, it will be..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Male_Power

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Pan · 17/11/2013 12:48

SF - that link, nor the overall work of the author, adds nothing to the authentic and recognisable proposal of how men 'tune out' of their involvement, and JK demonstrates that.
Again, if you think men are classed as disposable objects, that could be a worthy subject on another thread you could commence.

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BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2013 13:37

but toad has posted about how he wouldn't see being slapped by his partner as violence, or at very least not the same sort of DV as women suffer.

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SigmundFraude · 17/11/2013 13:41

'Again, if you think men are classed as disposable objects, that could be a worthy subject on another thread you could commence.'

This sort of sounds as though you are telling me where I can and can't post.

As for the rest, it looks like you could be right, it doesn't add anything to the proposal, however the link has stand alone value.

And I believe that education is never a waste.

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TheDoctrineOfWho · 17/11/2013 13:43

He didn't say wasn't violence, just acknowledged that between him and his DW, he had greater physical strength and that this was generally true in a man-woman couple.

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SigmundFraude · 17/11/2013 13:50

'The point is clear: men are responsible for using their strength responsibly.'

What do you think women are responsible for?

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BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2013 14:11

He said that is wasn't of the same magnitude, is it violence or is it not?

Is a male slap equal to a female slap, how many slaps does a woman get before it becomes DV?

What magnitude does the violence have to take before we are allowed to notice?

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TheDoctrineOfWho · 17/11/2013 14:34

He said the problem wasn't of the same magnitude and went on immediately to illustrate the point about relative strengths.

My interpretation of that was, say, a bruised cheek was not of the same magnitude as a broken cheekbone. Ie a similar blow from a stronger person could cause more damage,which did not mean that only one was DV.

I guess you read the post differently though, BBJ.

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TheDoctrineOfWho · 17/11/2013 14:38
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Pan · 17/11/2013 14:41

no SF I couldn't care less actually where you post.

It's just that it's pretty annoying when posters habits are characterised by not commencing their own discussion but instead leech off the effort, energy and idea of others in order to throw an obstacle in considering the topic. You aren't the only one who does this.

So it's fair to suggest that IF men are seen as disposable then go off and commence a discussion about it.

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Toadinthehole · 17/11/2013 14:44

I'll emphasise my last point again: DV is foul regardless of the gender of the perpetrator and the victim. No, I do not think we should "tune out" in respect of DV perpetrated by women against men. I've said on other threads that male victims of DV need to be taken more seriously than they are currently (ie, not taken seriously at all).

However, this does not detract from my main point, which is that in the average relationship, if a man and a woman get into a fight, the man is far more likely to inflict serious harm on the woman than vice versa. Men are generally physically stronger than women, and as such should not abuse that advantage.

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BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2013 16:07

"Men are generally physically stronger than women, and as such should not abuse that advantage."

IMO if a man is the perpetrator of DV he isn't going to care about abusing that advantage

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Toadinthehole · 18/11/2013 02:40

All for more reason for men to do something about it.

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