Childrens books - how much consideration are you giving to age groups and word counts etc?

[grumpypants]

Because much as I know the best thing is to write, there is also a lot of sane advice about researching and pitching accordingly. Trouble is, the length of a book for 7-9 is so much shorter than for 9 plus. There's also that conflict of subject matter and style. So, what are you doing?

[belledechocchipcookie]

I think the OU course is a fantastic idea. I've seen a course which is 8 weeks long and costs 4K!! There's a great many people out there who will see people who want to get a book published as a way of making money so the OU is the best way to go.

I think the publisher may be quite pissed if it took me 9 months to rewrite it if I did an OU course at the same time!

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

You really should do it, Belle. You would be doing your rewrite alongside it, and it would help you enormously.

[belledechocchipcookie]

I may do at some point. I think the novel's going well though. I'm on the second draft, it won't take long to finish I don't think. I can't write poetry or rhymes so I'd love to be able to do this. I've had enough of education and assignments for a while so need the break. The long route is quite appealing because I really can't face any more coursework for a while.

[nickelbabysnatcher]

I don't know about Stand-alones for 7-9s.

They just don't sell.

Yes, we'd like to see more of them, and I take them whenever I can, but they don't sell .

As soon as you put them in the 8 upwards section, they sell.

[belledechocchipcookie]

Is that because the parents of this age group tend to look for something that they know that their child will read because they have read the same sort of thing before? I'd imagine kids don't always get much of a say what they read at this age, it's not them buying them. Why buy a stand-alone and risk it not being read when you can buy book 2 when they liked book 1??

[nickelbabysnatcher]

exactly it, belle - older children are more likely to take the risk.

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I'm finding it interesting to see how the child's mind works re series/standalone books, and the impact that has on book buying grown-ups. I go into our local bookshop and get all depressed about how there's nothing but series fiction (some good, some bad) but bloody Rainbow Fairies is what dd demands (and will read) so that is what I sometimes buy.
I know she only likes it because it's what the other girls read - it's just like any other playground craze, whether toys or ways of doing your hair.

[belledechocchipcookie]

I could say at least they are reading but I won't because I think it's very important that they read a wider range of books. IIRC series books are written by several authors who get a brief from the publishers as to what they want, I imagine the fact that they are told what to put into it affects the quality of the writing. I have bought a copy of the magic wishing tree which is aimed at 5+, I'm quite surprised at how many of these have actually been sold.

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

there are series by a single author too and some of those are good - I tried one of the 'Daisy and the trouble with...' books recently on a MNer's recommendation and thought that was funny. Not everything is as bad as Rainbow Fairies, thank heaven.

[belledechocchipcookie]

I've not read the Rainbow Fairies. I was going to write some fairy stories but have decided not to having seen the amount of books in this series. I'm not a fan or Mr Gum though.

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I wish you would Belle, I would kill for well-written books with fairies in them. Fairy books with some personality and sense of fun in them!

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

because dd would want to read them, I mean.

[nickelbabysnatcher]

(going off ona little tangent, sorry!)

what about the Worst Witch?
and Winnie the witch for readers?

not fairies, i know, but let me just browse the shelves....

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

My eight-year-old daughter still loves Mr Gum. If you are reading aloud, they are far, far more amusing to read than Rainbow Fairies for instance. Not that she lets me read aloud to her much any more.
I think one of the reasons series are more popular in the younger age group is that children of this age tend to be very conservative in their reading tastes. I often have to work quite hard to persuade my eight-year-old to try something new, even when I know she will LOVE it, whereas the older two are happy to give a new author a go if the blurb sounds interesting.

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

Linda Chapman's Magic by Moonlight series is not bad.

[nickelbabysnatcher]

all series, but:

Naughty Fairies by "Lucy Mayflower" - a school for naughty fairies...
Nina Fairy Ballerina by Anna Wilson - i have read the first one for review, and thought it well written and quite good fun
The Pet Sitter by Julie Sykes - Max sets up a pet-sitting busienss and finds himself looking after very unusual pets.

[belledechocchipcookie]

I can write them, it's getting them published when the market's flooded that's the problem. I send my ideas to the publisher, she says yes or no. I'm waiting for her to get back to me on a picture book text rewrite and I have a 9+ novel I'm rewriting at the moment. I've no idea if my writing is strong enough, my willing reader victim loves it though.

Do book shops ask the publishers if they have a certain type of book rather then the publisher approach you IYKWIM? I expect if you show there's a demand by asking then the publishers are more likely to accept the manuscripts.

[nickelbabysnatcher]

oh, yes, Mr Gum is great!

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

conservative is indeed the word LadyGlencora. You can suggest all sorts of wonderful stuff to me and I will get it and read it and enjoy it but dd will turn up her nose at it and demand more Rainbow Fairies. She has no taste. (Where did I go wrong? )

[nickelbabysnatcher]

the fairy stories are boring to adults for the same reason tehy appeal to children - they have a formula and each book is the same!
It means that children gaining reading confidence (even upto 8 or 9) have something to read that they know they will be able to read and understand.

she'll grow out of it when she's confident that she'll be able to read and understand something new, and then she'l read anything!

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

Worry not, Seth. All mine have passed throught the Rainbow Fairy addiction and the older two now read an incredible range of books - the 13 year old is even now reading All Quiet on the Western Front if that cheers you up any.

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

[grumpypants]

Thank you so much seth, belle, Lady and nickel - this is absolutely fascinating. My understanding is that stand alones for 7-9s don't work, but that they are suddenly great at 9 plus! I think my character would work really well in a Horrid Henry, Worst Witch way for 7-9, but I also read (Writers Year Book) that presenting an agent/publisher with an idea for a series was far too enthusiastic.
It's so interesting to hear from people who are doing more than just wanting to write a book. I chat to lots of people who want to, but have not seriously drafted anything.
Plus side, I wrote 1200 wds today as practise.

[atswimtwolengths]

I think it depends what you mean by series books. If you mean the Rainbow rubbish then yes, they sell, but they're not the only books that are available.

If you present an agent with a really well written book that is suitable for the age-group, then you could mention that you are working on another book involving the same characters. I think that's different from writing about all your plans, without an actual book to show them. (Not literally meaning you in that sentence!)

[grumpypants]

Yes, I mean the Rainbow stuff and the Animal Ark stuff seems to be the packaged series things that sell really well. What I think could work would be the character having a loner shelf life than just one book. Good tip tho - I am beginning to think this particular plot may be better suited to 7-9. Funny how mumsnet can be quite useful in the thinking process!