Secondary schools in Northern Ireland that are good for SEN

[popana]

Hi all, would really appreciate some honest advice about secondary schools in Northern Ireland. We're planning to move to NI next summer from England. DH often goes over there for work and we've come along with him as a family and fallen in love with the place. Been over many times now and already have some family there/Irish background and without listing all the reasons, on so many levels it's a no brainer for us as a family.

We've done a lot of research and have a few reccy trips planned in the New Year, but the one thing that's unnerving me is finding a suitable school for the kids. DS1 will be going into year 10 (year 9 in England) and DS2 will be due to start secondary school.

As I understand it there are still a lot of grammars in NI. DS1 would likely be able to get into one if there was space. He has high functioning ASD - no academic issues but does struggle a bit socially, although he has made a group of friends and settled in his current school, it just took some time.

DS2 has moderate ASD, not bad enough for special school but a good 2 year delay and ideally needs a special unit attached to mainstream. He is delightful but naive and socially lacking. Whilst I wouldn't want DS1 to miss out on the potential benefits of a grammar education, I don't really want to send them to two different schools, mainly because I don't want DS2 to feel like the poor relation and also because his insensitive ASD brother would probably tease him about it. I've already been on the phone to the EANI and had a good chat with them, but they don't advise on specific schools.

I know SEN provision can be patchy in NI, but can anyone recommend a good non grammar that might fit the bill? We're most interested in the north of Co. Antrim, especially around Ballymoney, Ballycastle, Coleraine etc, but also open to other suggestions. Co. Down also looks good but more pricey for housing. Main thing is we want to be max 1 hour from Belfast.
Many thanks!

[NImumconfused]

@popana I don't want to put you off as such but SEN provision is notoriously appalling in Northern Ireland at the moment and the grammars in general are poor in that regard, there is unfortunately still a prevailing attitude in many of them that SEN kids don't belong in a grammar school. My ASD DD got into a Belfast grammar easily based on the 11 plus exam results, but was unable to cope and got little to no support. We took her out after a year.

I'm in Co. Down, for a non-grammar there is Bangor Academy which has a good head, who is very dedicated to supporting all kids to reach their potential, so that might be a good option for your younger one. Plenty of kids there get great results so you could consider it for both? I'm not sure if we have many special units attached to mainstream secondaries, so your choices may be very limited there.

[hopeishere]

I'd bite the bullet and send them to two schools. If your older one can cope ok.

I'd agree SEN provision is very patchy.

Campbell College (fee paying) or Rockport might be an option

[popana]

Thanks both. I have heard this about SEN in NI, although I have to say it hasn't been a whole lot better here and has taken years of battling and been fobbed off before we've really got anywhere.

On a separate note, I'm thinking ahead to A-level stage. We live semi-rurally and most schools have a sixth form (16-18/A levels). The couple that don't aren't very good schools and haven't got A level provision because there isn't the demand and aspirations and results are poor etc.

Is it a similar situation in NI? Should I avoid schools with no A Levels? Or do kids tend to go on to college to do them?

[NImumconfused]

Nearly all schools have a sixth form, certainly all the grammars do - sixth form colleges aren't really a thing here. Some kids swap from one school to another for sixth form if they want to do a specific subject their own doesn't teach (or doesn't teach well) but the majority will do seven years in one school.

If you don't want to stay at school to do A-levels, there are various colleges that do vocational qualifications like BTECs.

[catcuriosity]

I know 2 high functioning ASD boys doing very well at Dalriada but it’s obviously hard to get places

Limavady high also seems to have a good SEN provision but is a busier school

Coleraine grammar is obviously good but again hard to get places and quite academically focused compared to others

[popana]

Thanks all. I've had a read up on Dalriada and it does look excellent. And that's the area we're most interested in living in. My high functioning DD1 would probably be fine if he could get a place. But there's no way DD2 will be able to go to a grammar as he's 2 years behind his peers and has moderate autism. Not quite severe enough for special school (at least I've been told that over here) but needs a fair bit of support.

My worst fear is that he'll be stuck in a bottom set class with unruly kids and little support. He is clever and I believe he'll be fine eventually with the right support. He's progressing but just at a 2 year delay for his age.

I'm reluctant to send them to 2 different schools. If I could find somewhere good for both of them where DD2 could be well supported and DD1 could get a good education that's my best case scenario.

[sunleopard]

I hadn’t really heard of sixth form colleges until I lived in England. DC are younger than yours but having been through the NI grammar system I was pleasantly surprised at the SEN provision my former school now has, it was all girls so no use to you but hopefully reflective of progress in other schools. I think you’d have to contact schools directly and ask what they do, or better still parents.

Regarding your older child teasing the younger one if it were explained that each was going to a school that best suited them would that work. I understand the logistics of 2 schools is a pain but if you want the best setting for each it might work out better. However you could be very upfront with the school about how each DC differs and see what they say.

[popana]

Thanks @sunleopard. Yes I am thinking it might just be best to send them to 2 different schools in the end. It may be something we just have to manage.

We're planning to get over there to some of the open days in Jan. In terms of DD1 academically it's not a struggle, his ASD mostly only affects him socially. DD2 would no way be able to sit the grammar school exam.

I was looking at Coleraine College website earlier. It looks to have excellent SEN provision. The most recent report I could find was 2017 so bit old now but it didn't do too well. 😕

Does anyone have any recent experience of it or other recommendations in north Antrim ?

[BodyKeepingScore]

Slemish College in Ballymena has really good SEN provision

[BodyKeepingScore]

Also to add, they do A Levels but also vocational subjects at 6th form age for those not sitting A Levels

[Whatnowfgs]

Not really the area you are looking at but St Josephs in Coalisland Co. Tyrone and St Pauls Bessbrook co. Armagh have excellent reputations for SEN unfortunately this means they are very difficult to get into.

I would say that the SEN provision seems to be as good as the current principal.
Any changes in leadership team can sometimes change this drastically.

In general if you get into a school with dreadful SEN provision it's very difficult to get out of and that's the reason we are home educating DS2 who sounds similar to your youngest.

[PopcornAndGummyBears]

Ballycastle High has an excellent reputation and gets good results. There are regularly kids who transfer in during yr8/9 who were successful in getting places at Dalriada or CGS but can’t cope with the academic pace. They don’t always go into top sets in Ballycastle either. Works closely with Cross & Passion and has excellent A-level provision in terms of subject choice. Small school - very much a family ethos about the place.

If looking at grammar, then Dalriada would be preferable to CGS in terms of pastoral care, SEN support, diversity.

If seriously considering Co Down then Priory in Holywood would be worth a look. Excellent pastoral care and SEN support. Bangor Academy does have a brilliant principal, but the school is huge (biggest in NI) and there are significant behavioural issues - particularly in lower bands. I can definitely attest to the principal being great though. Avoid St Columbanus - very poor subject choices at senior phase.

If you’re looking at grammar in Co Down then Bangor Grammar gets a decent enough reputation - certainly much better than 20/30 years ago. I’d avoid Sullivan - very much a school where kids need to self-motivate and I’ve heard of kids who’ve basically taught themselves because teachers have left them to it. (“Sink or swim” is how it’s often referred to locally) Some kids do brilliantly there (inc my nieces and nephews) but it’s not for everyone and SEN provision wouldn’t be what it’s known for.

Campbell in E.Belfast (school buses go from Bangor and through Holywood to my knowledge) can be hit or miss. Very much an “old boys network” kind of school, and known locally as the school for the “rich and thick”, BUT, I know a couple of boys with SEN who have done well and been very happy there. (Quite ‘rah’ though)

For what it’s worth - it’s very normal for siblings to go to different schools here and also very normal for kids to travel some distance to school on public/school transport. If looking at North Down then schools in Belfast are definitely worth a look too. BRA is a little further away than the likes of Campbell, but probably one of the best grammars in terms of diversity, SEN support, pastoral care, inclusion.

[popana]

@Whatnowfgs

Not really the area you are looking at but St Josephs in Coalisland Co. Tyrone and St Pauls Bessbrook co. Armagh have excellent reputations for SEN unfortunately this means they are very difficult to get into.

I would say that the SEN provision seems to be as good as the current principal.
Any changes in leadership team can sometimes change this drastically.

In general if you get into a school with dreadful SEN provision it's very difficult to get out of and that's the reason we are home educating DS2 who sounds similar to your youngest.

Thanks everyone - so helpful all. But re. the above suggestions in Dungannon and Armagh, they both do look like great schools judging by their websites.

Sorry to bring this up but in people's honest opinion, with them having English accents and not being Catholic, would it be a mistake to send my boys to a Catholic school?

I know tensions are nowhere near what they were, but they wouldn't be partipating in the religious side of things. They stick out a bit already as it is with their different levels of ASD.

Don't mean to be controversial, just trying to get an idea.

[Whatnowfgs]

Just like SEN support it varies widely according to school and area.

I can think of a couple where I definitely wouldn't send them.

However there are kids of mixed heritage in most schools now. It is very very different to what it would have been even maybe 15 years ago.

The rural schools are definitely more cliquey but most are fine.

[PopcornAndGummyBears]

My kids came here with kind of hybrid Scottish/English accents and are not Catholic and I wouldn’t have had a problem with sending them to some Catholic schools - BUT, I would have (and did) prefer a more diverse school. Integrated schools officially do that, but the reality is that some non-integrated schools are actually far more diverse than those which officially have integrated status. Ballycastle High is not particularly diverse in terms of its intake - it’s very rural Protestant, BUT their close connections with Cross & Passion (they teach some classes together at senior level and are very closely connected lower down the school too), mean that they are a very open school despite their roll looking very ‘one sided’.

There is a table somewhere online with the religious make up of each school - I’ll see
if I can find it - might be worth a look.

[Dalriadanland]

Some of the early posts on your thread don't apply to the area of Northern Ireland you're interested in.

I have a child in Year 8 at Dalriada. He has additional needs and they could not do more for him. In terms of special provision, pastoral care and academic excellence, Dalriada is head and shoulders above every other local school. I wouldn't recommend the schools in Coleraine based on poor inspections but of course local friends do go and are happy there. The grammar school there is fairly newly merged and it hasn't been spectacularly successful-results are disappointing.

So if your children can get into Dalriada, you will be absolutely fine - in some ways a private school education for free.

[popana]

Thanks all. Dalriada does look excellent. If I can get him in, I am considering it for DS1.

DS2 is due to start year 8 this year and it has been recommended that he needs a specialist provision class (a unit or special needs class within a mainstream school).

These classes seem to be few and far between in NI from what I can tell and the only ones in the North Antrim area I can find seem to be attached to not great schools. I am looking the details of various schools on the EANI website and it is listed if they have this provision.

As pp has said there is a great school in Ballycastle but it has no special provision class. We may just need to look further afield. I have heard good things about the schools in Magherafelt, so if anyone has any experience of those I'd love to hear it!

[Whatnowfgs]

@popana Your Ds2 would need a statement in Northern Ireland to get into a unit. I would advise you to contact the Education Authority as soon as possible. Spaces in units are very limited.

[popana]

Thanks @Whatnowfgs , I know, I've done a lot of research into this. He has a statement here (EHCP in England) but I've been advised by EANI that we'll have to start again from scratch as it's a different system in NI. They told me it will take 6 months and the fact he's already got an English one should help.

I hope that time frame is accurate as it takes at least a year here and took years of battling to get school to cooperate in the first place.

[PopcornAndGummyBears]

This may be totally tone deaf and apologies if it is because this really isn’t my area of knowledge at all, but is there a chance that your DS would not have been recommended a place in a unit if he was in NI for primary, simply because they aren’t that common here and therefore, (some) schools are better set up to respond to the needs of SEN kids within a mainstream setting? Like I said - I might be totally wrong here, but just a wee question.

In terms of units attached to not so great schools, again, I have no real experience at secondary level with this so may be talking out of my arse, but in North Down, the best unit in a nursery/primary setting is attached to a primary school in one of the roughest council estates in Bangor. I actually have 3 friends whose kids are in the unit - 1 currently in nursery, and 2 who transferred in during primary - transferring from very middle class schools in the town - and their kids are absolutely thriving there. They would never have contemplated going there before and would openly admit to having reservations based on their own biases due to the location/socio-economic demographic of the school, but are now all massive advocates for the unit and for the school itself.

I know you are primarily looking at Antrim/Causeway area, but if you are still considering Co Down, it might be worth contacting Kilcooley Primary for some advice - where do the kids in their unit go on to secondary for instance?

[popana]

@PopcornAndGummyBears thanks so much that's all really helpful. That's a good idea about speaking to the primary school in Bangor.

In terms of schools being able to cater for him without a unit, or him possibly not being referred to one under an NI statement, I'm hoping that might be the case as it would broaden our options a bit more. Perhaps NI units are reserved for the more severe needs? I don't know. In general so many people have told me that the majority of schools are much better than England in terms of academic standards and behaviour so I'm feeling fairly positive.

At the end of the day I think we're just going to have to make a decision and stop worrying about getting all our ducks in a row! Looking forward to a reccy trip in a few weeks time!

[Madwomanuptheroad29]

In my experience support for children with asd are very hit and miss. You will need a statement of SEN to ensure support.
With the current budgetary issues support for non statemented children is extremely limited. In addition competition for resources is huge and because special school provision is largely ringfenced for children with severe learning disabilities a lot of additional support is geared towards children who have often quote significant cognitive issues.
Support for autistic girls in grammar schools also varies widely. Again a statement is vital but also a school that has a good enough understanding of how autistic girls experience school. My own daughters did not find support at school useful (despite statements). One of them dropped out of education completely and the other one moved to Belfast Metropolitan College where she is thriving with outstanding support. No statement necessary.
Generally support better in Belfast area.
But have heard positive things about Dunclough in Ballymena.
My info is a mix of professional and personal experience but as outlined before, without a statement you will be extremely limited in accessing support within education.
Also keep in mind that here social services (camhs) fall under health and education is entirely separate so a lot of support that exists in England re asd is totally non existent (specialist schools for asd and residential schools). Social communication units that are attached to mainstream schools do frequently tend to limit access to a full academic curriculum.

[popana]

Thanks so much @Madwomanuptheroad29. More or less the same here in terms of no support without a statement. Sorry to hear it's been difficult for your daughters but glad the one is doing well at college now.

From what I can gather from all the responses it's the luck of the draw as to whether a school is supportive of asd pupils or not. I guess it depends on the school leadership and their level of understanding of asd/learning difficulties. So grateful for all the recommendations and advice.

[candlelog]

Hi op,
You might want to look at schools that have a grammar stream- Lagan College (Belfast) and there's one in Carrickfergus but I can't remember the name. They may be able to accommodate both dc's needs.

I worked in education in England and am now back in NI. The system in England is worse than here. It's harder to get an ehcp than a statement. I think schools are better in NI overall. Behaviour is much much better and there are far less exclusions. Statements don't go up to 25 like they do in England though.

Re English accent. I returned with my English dh and dc. My dc go to grammar (non catholic) but none of my family have ever had an issue with an English accent. We're in Belfast though so English accents are quite common (I'm probably tuned in now).

[KnutonHardz]

Some great advice above, especially with respect to Dalriada (my cousin taught there for years). Agree too with respect to lower bands in Bangor and Ards areas and north Down in general, seriously difficult social issues there, and it extends beyond school though!

I can’t comment on the SEN support, since it varies by student, their needs, the school staff at the time, so many variables. Sincere best wishes for the move.