How 'woke' is Ireland?

[purpleplatypus2022]

Not looking for a debate on the rights and wrongs of this ideology. Just curious as to how deep-rooted this is in Ireland? As compared to say the UK (somewhat esp. in the public sector) and US (very much, though more in Democrat leaning areas).

[Adhdnewmedsnewproblems]

Just by using the word 'woke' it's fairly obvious that you think being 'woke' is definitely bad 😆

Why do you want to know? Are you moving to Ireland?

And vast swathes of of the US is very Christian and conservative. You just don't see those bits on TV as much.

[purpleplatypus2022]

Well, 'woke' was actually the term such people used themselves, though they now pretend it was a nasty slur concocted by nefarious right-wingers to besmirch a noble movement for social justice.

I am curious. Thinking of where to live.

[CockingASnook]

And you’re basing this important decision on how ‘woke’ somewhere is? Interesting.

[carefullycourageous]

So you are looking for somewhere unwoke?

How about Qatar?

[Marblessolveeverything]

Currently in discussions with civil service management on issue of proposed pronouns being mandated in non editable email signatures - does that help?

[MardyOldGoth]

Probably more 'woke' than Mumsnet.

[Thedogshouses]

@carefullycourageous

So you are looking for somewhere unwoke?

How about Qatar?

Very ignorant statement. Qatar is a place that you should only judge if you have lived here. I have never lived in a more tolerant and gentle society. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Ukraine is not exactly inclusive and you are all falling over yourselves to adopt families. Don't believe everything you read in the Guatdian, come and see it for yourself. Yes there has been a steep learning curve bit I have lived here for 23 years and am more qualified to comment. Please don't jump on that bandwagon, it just makes all the endless trafficking and cruelty the UK worthless. Go and help the children in brothels in every town in England, then come and attack my beloved home. I bet I could sneer at your home just as easily because it won't be perfect wherever it is.

[carefullycourageous]

@Thedogshouses

Very ignorant statement. Qatar is a place that you should only judge if you have lived here. I have never lived in a more tolerant and gentle society. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Ukraine is not exactly inclusive and you are all falling over yourselves to adopt families. Don't believe everything you read in the Guatdian, come and see it for yourself. Yes there has been a steep learning curve bit I have lived here for 23 years and am more qualified to comment. Please don't jump on that bandwagon, it just makes all the endless trafficking and cruelty the UK worthless. Go and help the children in brothels in every town in England, then come and attack my beloved home. I bet I could sneer at your home just as easily because it won't be perfect wherever it is.

World Report 2022: Qatar | Human Rights Watch (hrw.org) contains relevant information.

I am not going to argue with you at length, but I have not read anything from reputable sources to support your statement 'tolerant and gentle'.

I have no problem admitting the UK is a very long way from perfect.

[Abhannmor]

Certainly more woke than England and Wales. We are on the same page as Scotland which is also bringing in Self ID for transgender people. Trans rights activists in the UK often refer to Ireland's Self ID having caused no problems. Ignoring the violent sex offenders in Limerick Women's Prison etc. I think we share a lot of history with the Scots on these issues : we are both in headlong flight from oppressive churches. And desperate to be seen as liberal poster children in a progressive new Europe. This is actually quite commendable , mostly. But on the trans rights issue we have carelessly thrown women and children under the bus. For saying as much I have been booted from several Irish FB pages. On the other hand is Ireland all that woke? As opposed to Irish social media. Tolerant , certainly - but believing in some multiverse of infinite sex categories? No. Sort of midway between terf island and the USA. Very Irish...

[Abhannmor]

@Marblessolveeverything

Currently in discussions with civil service management on issue of proposed pronouns being mandated in non editable email signatures - does that help?

Sadiq Khan has pronouns in his Lord Mayor of London account. But not in his personal Sadiq Khan account. What a farce. He knows it's rubbish but has been compelled to play along.

[EarringsandLipstick]

I hate this term. Whether used pejoratively or sincerely, it's lost all meaning.

What do you mean by asking the question?

Any place will have different groupings and communities who will think & act differently. A whole country isn't one thing (and that includes your silly categorisation of the US, there are such variations in ideology & beliefs across thar country. As we are played out in every election there).

[JenniferBarkley]

Well. Just using the word woke, and in quotation marks no less, makes your views known.

In common with many on MN I don't think you know what woke actually means.

The serious answer is that Ireland has undergone massive social change within our lifetimes - divorce was only legalised less than 30 years ago, but since then equal marriage and abortion have also been legalised. All of these changes happened by referendum which means they are supported by the majority in society. The stranglehold of the church is also reducing and the cultural (if not structural) changes in that regard are incredible since I was growing up in the 80s.

Of course, not everyone has moved with the times and there remains a traditional element in society.

In the whole, the population is supportive of women (smaller wage gap and more women in power than the UK), people from other cultures and LGBT people. Huge strides have been made but obviously no country or society is perfect and there's still plenty of work to do.

But yes, transpeople are largely accepted - since we all know that's what you mean.

I don't know why I bothered with a considered post in truth.

[turkeyboots]

Very and not at all, which is a very Irish position to be in. Our politics and culture are different and we are a much younger and smaller population than the UK. So some issues are less contentious but God help you if you suggest people stop burning turf.

[loveisanopensore]

Big difference between Dun Laoghaire and Donegal.

I suppose you could judge areas by our recent referendum results.

[purpleplatypus2022]

@CockingASnook

And you’re basing this important decision on how ‘woke’ somewhere is? Interesting.

Of course. It will be the sole criteria upon which i judge this question, obviously.

[purpleplatypus2022]

@JenniferBarkley

Well. Just using the word woke, and in quotation marks no less, makes your views known.

In common with many on MN I don't think you know what woke actually means.

The serious answer is that Ireland has undergone massive social change within our lifetimes - divorce was only legalised less than 30 years ago, but since then equal marriage and abortion have also been legalised. All of these changes happened by referendum which means they are supported by the majority in society. The stranglehold of the church is also reducing and the cultural (if not structural) changes in that regard are incredible since I was growing up in the 80s.

Of course, not everyone has moved with the times and there remains a traditional element in society.

In the whole, the population is supportive of women (smaller wage gap and more women in power than the UK), people from other cultures and LGBT people. Huge strides have been made but obviously no country or society is perfect and there's still plenty of work to do.

But yes, transpeople are largely accepted - since we all know that's what you mean.

I don't know why I bothered with a considered post in truth.

Apologies for making 'my views' well known, though I'm not sure how exactly. Maybe I was using them to indicate my dislike of the term?

And why do assume I'm actually usually as code for the 'trans' - an issue I could scarcely care about as it happens?

Sad.

[purpleplatypus2022]

Thanks to the others though, some of those replies were quite useful.

[oliviastwisted]

Currently I work it the midlands. Where I work is very large and a significant amount of my colleagues in their 30s/40s are relatively conservative and traditional in their outlooks.

I’ve lived and worked in Dublin again relatively conservative but more liberal than where I am now. I don’t think Ireland is particularly woke. I think it is small enough and parochial enough that if something is socially unjust that people know actually know the people affected in their community and now that things are being spoken about more and less is being forced under the rug there is a genuinely neighbourly vibe of not want to harm gay people, women going through terminations, trans people for example.

[JenniferBarkley]

@purpleplatypus2022

Apologies for making 'my views' well known, though I'm not sure how exactly. Maybe I was using them to indicate my dislike of the term?

And why do assume I'm actually usually as code for the 'trans' - an issue I could scarcely care about as it happens?

Sad.

Well what issues are you concerned with? If you're more specific we can more accurately answer the question.

[buckeejit]

The north is generally backwards so not that woke, but I too hate that word now.

There's plenty of Bible Belt areas if that's more your thing. I don't want self ID but I don't align myself with the DUP. There's a broad spectrum of people & for the most part ime, unless people know you're going to agree with them, don't discuss the issues.

[MargaretBall]

I think Abhannmor post most accurately reflects the reality in Ireland . To a large part, most people are pragmatic and take a live and let live approach - unless and until something affects them. However public opinion and private opinion are not one and the same. This is not unique to Ireland but is a strong feature of Irish society.

I can’t see how or why any discussion on ‘woke’ can avoid mentioning TG rights - it is after all the issue du jour.

On the issue of self ID only , as opposed to the wider issue of TG rights,
the legislation ( it did not require a referendum ) around that was significantly passed shortly after the same sex marriage referendum, and was part of a wave of social liberalisation that modernised Ireland very quickly in response to a century or so of church domination. The decision on self ID was intentionally shaped by a ‘be kind’ approach during the pre legislative process- a process involving professional referrals/ oversight etc had originally been proposed following consultation with stakeholders. I agree that Ireland likes being the poster child of Europe, in terms of international outlook, liberal laws, economic recovery and growth etc. and certain sectors are woker than others ( I’m using woke as shorthand here )but it is generally a tolerant society. In saying that , I think the self ID legislation would not pass in its current form today without much more debate , division and scrutiny , and certainly not if it was a plebiscite, as the unintended consequences of self id in terms of the rights of women, health provisions and ensuring appropriate mental health care , are higher profile and would be harder to ignore completely . Ireland has a well developed and healthy media ( social media is another thing though and is mostly dominated by vested interest groups ) of which Irish people are voracious consumers and people are generally engaged in the political process. It will be interesting, and possibly painful, to see how the issue of self id develops in the long term and how a balance is reached ,
but I think that’s the same everywhere.

[BessieFinkNottle]

I think many people in Ireland don't even realise we have self-ID tbh.
Also, there is definitely a generational divide, with younger people being far more woke.

[ASmallCat]

I agree with Bessie, few that I’ve talked to are even aware self-id is a thing apart from those gleefully abusing women who are ecstatically enthusiastic to have a new tool to keep us in our place after the dethroning of religion

However I have noticed that the pull of nostalgia/tradition is also in our youth, most notably in harking back to greater self-sufficiency as costs soar.

I think that is leading many to question if everything ‘new & improved’ really means everything else is ‘old & inferior’ (nod to Garfield )

As more evidence comes to light of the dangers of rushing headlong into brave new worlds and abandoning all the past, many of every age are seeing that we need a balance of old & new and are becoming more thoughtful, rounded, cautious and questioning than before.

Like the looong wait for teens to come out of the belligerent know-it-all ‘Kevin’ stage and realise they aren’t right 100% of the time & Granny not only has a point but can also meet them halfway & teach them some important life skills.

[BessieFinkNottle]

Hope you're right ASmallCat.
There's another thread running at the moment about the Union of Students in Ireland voting to boycott the Irish Times because they published an article they don't agree with. There doesn't seem to be much 'thoughtful, rounded, cautious' questioning in evidence there. They seem very young to me.

[BessieFinkNottle]

On the other hand, the vote about the same boycott was narrowly defeated in Trinity, so there's obviously a mix of opinions which is good.