Supply your OWN energy meters!

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

I've put this here as there doesn't seem to be a board for household bills or utilities.

I'm hoping this may help the ever increasing numbers of us who are being pressured to accept smart meters, particularly if you struggle paying your bills. Companies are increasingly changing these to prepayment remotely, so if you cannot pay you are effectively disconnecting yourself.

For anyone interested, it turns out you can actually purchase your own gas or electricity credit meter, and have it installed yourself if your energy company refuse! Some companies charge hundreds of sounds to install a standard credit never instead of a smart meter. However, more and more companies are saying you can't have one because they don't have any, or are no longer available, but this is an outright lie.

This company give advice, and can also provide meters and perform installations.

www.crownenergy.co.uk/faq/electricity-meter-faqs/#:~:text=You%20can%20legally%20install%20your,a%20dangerous%20procedure%20to%20undertake

This company sell standalone meters, both gas and electricity. Electricity under £50, gas from as little as £20. Obviously, you would need to obtain the relevant advice as to what would be appropriate for your property.

www.electricmetersales.co.uk/

I really hope this helps someone.

[PerkingFaintly]

Thanks @OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet . Bumping this.

[ThisGirlNever]

It says you need your supplier's permission. I presume they would just refuse you permission to fit your own?

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@ThisGirlNever

It says you need your supplier's permission. I presume they would just refuse you permission to fit your own?

As long as you use an appropriately qualified person to fit the meter, they cannot refuse. But even if the threat of paying to have your own fitted stops them from installing a smart meter, then your end aim has still been achieved, surely?

[Kitkatandcoffee]

Can I ask why don’t you want smart meters? Genuine question we have one and we love it as we can see exactly what we are using.
It let us keep an eye on what we were spending.

[PerkingFaintly]

This thread describes why people might not want smart meters:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/cost_of_living/debt-collectors-being-paid-bonuses-by-british-gas-when-force-fitting-prepayment-meters?page=1

If you have a smart meter, they don't even need to break into your home. They can reprogram your smart meter to be a prepayment meter without even leaving their nice warm office.

It doesn't matter that they haven't sent you the card or whatever you will need to top the meter up.

And it doesn't matter that you've disputed some obviously wrong bill when they've stuffed up the account (as they do very frequently). They can just load the wrong amount onto the meter as debt, and if you want electricity you will have to pay what they demand.

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@Kitkatandcoffee

Can I ask why don’t you want smart meters? Genuine question we have one and we love it as we can see exactly what we are using.
It let us keep an eye on what we were spending.

I am disabled, and due to my conditions, if I lose my power or heat it is very likely I will die.

Smart meters can be changed to prepay remotely, and then in the event I was unable to top it up, I would be disconnected. This is exactly the reason it has been illegal to force fit prepay meters on the disabled since 2018.

[Xenia]

Very useful information and hopefully my old meters will last for decades and I can ward off the smart meter pressure over the next few years.

[Aroundthetwist]

People who pay for the energy they use are better off with a smart meter in my view.

People who don’t pay, and don’t let their energy company know they are vulnerable or speak to them to ask for help are in trouble whether or not they have a smart meter.

The main issue with people who have prepayment meters ‘force fitted’ are they are people who don’t engage at all with their energy supplier - they ignore all attempts at communication. Energy suppliers only know you are vulnerable if you let them know - if you use energy and don’t pay, as with anything else in life, enforcement activity will follow. Ofgem are consulting on allowing a larger bad debt allowance in the price cap - so paying customers will be charged higher tariffs to pick up the costs of people who don’t pay. It’s in everybody’s interests for those who won’t pay to be forced to, and for those who can’t pay to be helped.

I completely agree that the tactics used by third parties contracted by energy companies recently (BG) look questionable, but if you are in debt then actually a prepayment meter is often a good idea - the very large majority of prepayment meters are installed for customers who actually prefer them.

We actually like our smart meter as it tells us exactly how much we’ve used !

[Alexandra2001]

Thanks for this, very useful as i'm in dispute with Octopus & all they ve offered me is a smart meter with totally different eco7 times to what i have now.

[PerkingFaintly]

The main issue with people who have prepayment meters ‘force fitted’ are they are people who don’t engage at all with their energy supplier - they ignore all attempts at communication.

<hollow laugh>

Is that some kind of weird joke?

I currently have three (3) neighbours in dispute with utility companies.

One had an unexplained DD of £600 taken from her bank months ago, and has spent hours of her life on the phone to the utility company since. Each call, the new person she talks to agrees with her that she is right, the utility company is wrong, they owe her £600 and will pay it to her just now... and the month goes round, rinse and repeat. She's a disabled pensioner and is waiting for this money back to pay for an adaptation she needs in her house. Her Ofgem complaint is now in progress.

Another is a landlady. She came round to use my laptop just to check it wasn't her phone being odd, because when her last tenant left and she took over the account, her utility company managed to merge her new account with that from the last vacancy. She is now receiving emails telling her DDs are being taken from her bank and that the govt payments have gone into her electricity account... but the links from those emails lead to a webpage saying "this account is closed". I watched it happen. She has not even had a reply from the utility company.

Another neighbour also has a dispute involving a mysterious £600 DD (that figure again).

In each case, the body "not engaging" is the utility company.

So if you like sweeping generalisations, try this one:
People who have not yet experienced the chaos that utility company fuck-ups can bring to their lives, indulge in magical thinking that they only happen to Other People who must have done something wrong. That way they can kid themselves it'll never happen to them.

[CrazyCorgi]

I genuinely don’t see what all the fuss is about smart meters. I think it’s just been over hyped in the media and people have been whipped up into a frenzy. People are saying that they don’t want to be changed over to one because they can afford to pay their bills by direct debit anyway so there’s no need to. Well, if they can afford to pay by direct debit then why aren’t they? Use the money that they say they’ve got to put credit on the meter if it’s changed over. I know it sounds harsh but there’s a reason that people are put onto a smart meter and it’s because they’re not paying, why should a company give their product away for free?

Yes the prices are over inflated. I don’t want to pay them either. However, I do and I don’t want my bill to be increased to cover the debts of people who don’t pay.

[GPTec1]

@CrazyCorgi

I genuinely don’t see what all the fuss is about smart meters. I think it’s just been over hyped in the media and people have been whipped up into a frenzy. People are saying that they don’t want to be changed over to one because they can afford to pay their bills by direct debit anyway so there’s no need to. Well, if they can afford to pay by direct debit then why aren’t they? Use the money that they say they’ve got to put credit on the meter if it’s changed over. I know it sounds harsh but there’s a reason that people are put onto a smart meter and it’s because they’re not paying, why should a company give their product away for free?

Yes the prices are over inflated. I don’t want to pay them either. However, I do and I don’t want my bill to be increased to cover the debts of people who don’t pay.

Energy isn't an option is it, should a poor person who needs extra heating and/or uses electricity for med equipment be cut off for whatever reason? or be on a key meter and be charged more per unit?

Energy supply shouldn't be in the hands of private companies, that way it would be cheaper as there wouldn't be the need for profit.

Smart meter installs, as said, is paid for by everyone.

In some other more advanced countries, pre payment meters aren't allowed, bad debt should be dealt with via the court system, same with TV licence, council tax, rents or water.

The problem is, anyone with a SM can be switched over to pre payment, the energy company can do this remotely and who says they wouldn't to you, even if your paying via DD in the future, regulations can be changed.

[Xenia]

Smart meters are a separate issue. I have lots of reasons for refusing one including having to stay in for a man to arrive, having the clutter of it in the kitchen, the hassle, the fact I k now what power I use already, the ability remotely for it to charge different rates for different times of day use, fact they seem to go wrong more often than traditional meters etc etc

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@Aroundthetwist

People who pay for the energy they use are better off with a smart meter in my view.

People who don’t pay, and don’t let their energy company know they are vulnerable or speak to them to ask for help are in trouble whether or not they have a smart meter.

The main issue with people who have prepayment meters ‘force fitted’ are they are people who don’t engage at all with their energy supplier - they ignore all attempts at communication. Energy suppliers only know you are vulnerable if you let them know - if you use energy and don’t pay, as with anything else in life, enforcement activity will follow. Ofgem are consulting on allowing a larger bad debt allowance in the price cap - so paying customers will be charged higher tariffs to pick up the costs of people who don’t pay. It’s in everybody’s interests for those who won’t pay to be forced to, and for those who can’t pay to be helped.

I completely agree that the tactics used by third parties contracted by energy companies recently (BG) look questionable, but if you are in debt then actually a prepayment meter is often a good idea - the very large majority of prepayment meters are installed for customers who actually prefer them.

We actually like our smart meter as it tells us exactly how much we’ve used !

It's not a good idea when you're disabled and bed bound, and you can't top up be it either through lack of money, or physically being able to do so.

If my heat and power goes off, I'll very likely die. It's a bit more than inconvenient. And exactly why I refuse to have a smart meter, as so many have been remotely moved over to prepayment even in error. The number of cases I've read in the last week of people being persecuted for previous owners/tenants debts is ridiculous.

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@PerkingFaintly

The main issue with people who have prepayment meters ‘force fitted’ are they are people who don’t engage at all with their energy supplier - they ignore all attempts at communication.

<hollow laugh>

Is that some kind of weird joke?

I currently have three (3) neighbours in dispute with utility companies.

One had an unexplained DD of £600 taken from her bank months ago, and has spent hours of her life on the phone to the utility company since. Each call, the new person she talks to agrees with her that she is right, the utility company is wrong, they owe her £600 and will pay it to her just now... and the month goes round, rinse and repeat. She's a disabled pensioner and is waiting for this money back to pay for an adaptation she needs in her house. Her Ofgem complaint is now in progress.

Another is a landlady. She came round to use my laptop just to check it wasn't her phone being odd, because when her last tenant left and she took over the account, her utility company managed to merge her new account with that from the last vacancy. She is now receiving emails telling her DDs are being taken from her bank and that the govt payments have gone into her electricity account... but the links from those emails lead to a webpage saying "this account is closed". I watched it happen. She has not even had a reply from the utility company.

Another neighbour also has a dispute involving a mysterious £600 DD (that figure again).

In each case, the body "not engaging" is the utility company.

So if you like sweeping generalisations, try this one:
People who have not yet experienced the chaos that utility company fuck-ups can bring to their lives, indulge in magical thinking that they only happen to Other People who must have done something wrong. That way they can kid themselves it'll never happen to them.

^ This ^

[Aroundthetwist]

@OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet genuine question, have you told your energy company that you are vulnerable ? I think they can tag your account and it might be easier to receive support too.

Smart meters aside, energy is not a free product and because energy suppliers only make 2% on energy supply (really), it’s likely that Ofgem will allow the bad debt charge arising from the restriction on fitting prepayments to be passed through to end consumers. Both government and energy suppliers offer support through targeted measures and benefits as a whole - using energy and not paying leads to higher costs to paying customers.

@GPTec1 , not sure if you are implying that non-paying customers should simply be taken to court and and disconnected - I don’t think that’s a great solution, Ofgem doesn’t allow disconnection for residential customers, other European countries do.

Smart meters have issues but they are more reliable than manual meter reads, or manual switching etc. As long as people let their supplier know if they are vulnerable, the risk of being forced onto a prepayment meter (non-smart of smart) is low - don’t just wait for enforcers to show up at your door with court mandated warrants.

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@Aroundthetwist

@OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet genuine question, have you told your energy company that you are vulnerable ? I think they can tag your account and it might be easier to receive support too.

Smart meters aside, energy is not a free product and because energy suppliers only make 2% on energy supply (really), it’s likely that Ofgem will allow the bad debt charge arising from the restriction on fitting prepayments to be passed through to end consumers. Both government and energy suppliers offer support through targeted measures and benefits as a whole - using energy and not paying leads to higher costs to paying customers.

@GPTec1 , not sure if you are implying that non-paying customers should simply be taken to court and and disconnected - I don’t think that’s a great solution, Ofgem doesn’t allow disconnection for residential customers, other European countries do.

Smart meters have issues but they are more reliable than manual meter reads, or manual switching etc. As long as people let their supplier know if they are vulnerable, the risk of being forced onto a prepayment meter (non-smart of smart) is low - don’t just wait for enforcers to show up at your door with court mandated warrants.

I've been on the Priority Service Register for 15 years, and they're very well aware of my condition.

It hasn't stopped them breaking in three times in last three years trying to force fit prepay, even though that's been illegal for the vulnerable since 2018. You have no concept of how terrifying it is to hear your door being put through, whilst you're stuck in bed and can't move.

By the way, this isn't about not paying, or being prepared to, but being unable to pay. When I get so little and it has to pay for specialist food and care as well, the only thing that can give is the energy bills. There isn't a choice, sadly.

[Aroundthetwist]

The Priority Service Register is for network operators - the companies that bring power to your house, so national grid, sgn, northern power grid/gas networks etc. I don’t think a supplier would see your name on there.

I can recommend giving your supplier a call to let them know your situation as I agree, that does sound terrifying.

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@Aroundthetwist

The Priority Service Register is for network operators - the companies that bring power to your house, so national grid, sgn, northern power grid/gas networks etc. I don’t think a supplier would see your name on there.

I can recommend giving your supplier a call to let them know your situation as I agree, that does sound terrifying.

It's not. You sign up through your energy supplier, so they know exactly who's on it and who's not. Hence why when I've complained about this three times, they've said "that shouldn't be happening, you're on our register".

[postwarbulge]

If energy suppliers are encouraging people to have a smart meter installed, supposedly to save them money, why do they impose such eye-watering charges to install them?

[sorcerersapprentice]

I thought was illegal for anyone who is not appointed by the Energy company to touch the meter. There are a lot of conmen out there offering to install meters for illegal purposes so I would be very cautious on anything like this that looks too good to be true. It probably is

[OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]

@sorcerersapprentice

I thought was illegal for anyone who is not appointed by the Energy company to touch the meter. There are a lot of conmen out there offering to install meters for illegal purposes so I would be very cautious on anything like this that looks too good to be true. It probably is

Anyone is entitled to have their own meter installed, as long as the installer is appropriately qualified.

And as long as you don't just dispose of the energy company's meter, and offer to return it to them, you haven't done anything wrong.

[GPTec1]

@Aroundthetwist Of course not, how do water companies manage bad debtors? they are not allowed to cut people off or install pre payement.

In the case of genuine poverty, the energy company can introduce longer term reduced repayments and social tariffs, courts only for those who can afford but don't.

A pre payment meter is self disconnection, i'd have thought that was blatantly obviously.

Yes 2% profit but on huge turn overs, is actually very good.

On Europe (not all countries allow disconnection, france certainly doesn't) they are charging far less for energy, UK is a real outlier on this because we have universal support and old housing stock, poorly insulated.

[Aroundthetwist]

Nobody would run a business at 2% profit - do you know what that means, that means taking all the risk of buying power and gas - collateral requirements, forecasting, hedging, regulatory compliance, implementing government schemes, balancing network estimates, transmission and network costs - for 2% ? That’s why the government won’t nationalise them, they’ve done a terrible job with Bulb and have realised just how hard it is. Octopus has never made a profit - it’s massively loss making. If energy firms were nationalised energy would cost more. Many, many suppliers have gone bust - the big suppliers have been on their knees for the last five years.

The vast majority of prepayment meters are fitted in houses at the customers request because people don’t want to get into debt. There is support out there for the people facing who can’t pay, and also for vulnerable customers but it’s really hard to identify them. I agree that Priority Services Register should work but it relies on info being shared with suppliers, it’s for the networks really. It’s better to contact your supplier directly.

I work in the industry and whilst I think BG is absolutely terrible for breaking into houses to force fit meters and there is no excuse for it at all, there does have to be enforcement otherwise costs would increase for other people who do pay. There needs to be a better way to identify vulnerable customers, an issue which I know exists in our own business.

[Floofydawg]

@postwarbulge

If energy suppliers are encouraging people to have a smart meter installed, supposedly to save them money, why do they impose such eye-watering charges to install them?

They don't though. Mine was installed by Octopus for free.