No biologic mechanism for menstrual changes post-vaccine

[pagesofsnow555]

'There is no biologic mechanism that would account for [the] disruption of the menstrual cycle following receipt of the COVID-19 vaccine,' Mark Turrentine, MD, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Baylor College of Medicine in Texas, said.

Does anyone else find this not comforting at all? If there is literally no biological mechanism in the vaccine to account for menstrual changes, it basically means no one has a clue what is causing it. Or am I reading that in the wrong way? Should it be comforting?


(Quotes from a DM article
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9446907/Some-women-report-heavier-painful-PERIODS-getting-COVID-19-vaccine.html#comments)

[NRCS]

Honestly, I give up. You need to go on a Statistics course and go back to Biology GCSE. 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage in the first trimester. 1 in 8 births are premature. Pregnant women having vaccinations don't somehow sidestep that.

[Poorlykitten]

@SmallTownSouthernGirl but that’s not in context with anything. That number is lower that the normal rate of miscarriages in that time period.

[mustlovegin]

I'm not a doctor, but women's hormonal balance is very sensitive to any kind of stimulus (catching flu, seasons, flying long haul, etc). And also all hormones within the endocrine system are tightly interlinked (e.g. cortisol due to stress or thyroid hormone can affect oestrogen production)

I would be surprised if vaccination (or Covid itself) didn't produce temporary menstrual cycle changes TBH

[AppleJane]

Immunity is naturally suppressed in pregnancy to protect the fetus. Aren't flu jabs recommended after the first trimester for this reason? Asking questions is not scaremongering but MN is probably not the best place right now to ask these questions. I am pro vaccine for anyone at risk of dying of covid. But I think we should proceed with caution from this point on although I suspect that is what is happening behind the scenes.

[Theunamedcat]

Mine showed up two days early but im 46 and most likely in perimenopause the night sweats are an issue for me

[mustlovegin]

The fact that researchers haven't gone into the trouble of investigating this (and that women's hormones are so very poorly understood in general) doesn't mean that there is no biological mechanism .

[Neonprint]

My period has arrived early and is a bit different to normal after my second AZ vaccine. My sister's period was really later (3 weeks or so I think) after her first. We both have very regular cycles and have our period at the same time!
I think in terms of there being no reason for the vaccine to effect period, there are loads of things which effect our periods which aren't understood. So this isn't surprising nothing has been found!

For example periods of stress can delay or cause missed periods. So in a sense I wonder if everything is detectable or explainable with periods?

As with many stuff involving women we need better understanding of health and periods.

[CovoidOfAllHumanity]

If this really was a common side effect then how come it didn't come out in the trials?

As I say I was in a trial and I reported my 'side effect'. When you are in a trial you are asked very detailed questions and to report everything. How would something that so many women are apparently experiencing be missed?

I can believe that a very very rare side effect like VIPIT would not be picked up because it's 1 in a million but such common menstrual issues as people are apparently reporting would be seen in the trial data.

The difference between yellow card reports and trial data is that yellow cards can't exclude coincidence whereas trial data can because it is randomised and blinded and the vaccine group is compared to placebo. If this was a real side effect then more people in the vaccine group than placebo would report it so why didn't they?

My conclusion from the data and my
own experience is that it must be coincidental otherwise why would I experience it with placebo? Why would people not have reported it more with vaccine than placebo in the trials?

[CosmicHeat]

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/977005/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-_BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

Pfizer has 40 spontaneous abortions so far and there are 3 other papers. It needs a bit of number crunching to get the figures which I don't have time for now.

[AppleJane]

@mustlovegin

The fact that researchers haven't gone into the trouble of investigating this (and that women's hormones are so very poorly understood in general) doesn't mean that there is no biological mechanism .

Exactly this. When they told us not to wear masks a year ago I ignored that and wore them anyway because I saw doctors on the news wearing them. I applied my own logic. It is not logical to say there is no link when we simply don't know enough about women's hormones.

[mustlovegin]

When they told us not to wear masks a year ago I ignored that and wore them anyway because I saw doctors on the news wearing them. I applied my own logic

I did the same. Unfortunately we sometimes have to resort to applying our own (admittedly basic) logic even though millions are spent on research!

[Poorlykitten]

By the same token it’s not logical to presume there is an automatic link without data to back it up. Yes, it will need investigating but so far nothing points to anything out of the ordinary regarding menstruation and miscarriages. This is why they ask us to yellow flag...because unfortunately your anecdotel evidence of ‘yes! I had the vaccine and it made my period late’ is not based on any scientific fact and could be caused by a myriad of other perfectly innocuous reasons. It should not be used as a reason to scaremonger others in to not taking the vaccine. I agree, all this needs more examination and investigating but possibly not on Mumsnet.

[wonderstuff]

I think the real scandal here is how poorly understood female reproductive biology is. Lots of women reported menstrual irregularities during the last year, our hormones are sensitive to our environment clearly, but how that works is not well understood.

I personally have always had hugely irregular cycles. I generally bleed pretty regularly but a hit of stress and my boobs don't change and my mood stays stable so I'm pretty sure I don't ovulate.

I had a cervical polyp recently and although I was asked about it bleeding after intercourse no one asked about mid cycle bleeding, which I was getting, which made me think it was high in my womb, and low and behold that's where they found the root.

Doctors are still giving out misinformation about the contraceptive pill and that's decades old.

I'm personally happy that the vaccines risk is far, far lower than my risk of covid, so will have whatever I'm offered without hesitation. But I'm frequently outraged at how poorly understood female health is and think it's entirely possible that the vaccine can affect your cycle as I find having a few days of poor sleep or a deadline looming affects mine.

[mustlovegin]

wonderstuff Yes, we can absolutely tell from these very subtle signs. Still we are often fobbed off.

[Roonerspismed]

Yes but if women don’t have a space to discuss these things then the issue gets buried

Women have reported these changes to their GP ABs only after discussion here have they thought further about it as the GP dismissed it

I don’t know if there is a link or not but shutting down the debate is the worst thing to do.

How do we know in trials that it wasn’t just dismissed as coincidence or even asked about?

[CovoidOfAllHumanity]

Because all side effects are asked about. I already told you I reported my missed period in the AZ trial

It can be proven whether it is a coincidence or a side effect by comparing the incidence in the vaccine group with the placebo group. That is literally the point of an RCT

[Campervan69]

I had Covid-19 not the vaccine but it definitely messed up my cycle. I bled for ages last month. Never happened before. I have a period app and have been regular as clockwork for years.

[Roonerspismed]

That’s good they asked covoid , I hadn’t realised.

I haven’t read the results of the trial or knowing they are openly published yet but it will be interesting to see the data and if there is an increased effect.

It wouldn’t surprise me either given how an overnight flight can knock a cycle or a stressful few days. I do think this Is important for people trying to conceive

[Londonwriter]

It's possibly something to do with the TH1 immune pathway (the innate/primitive immune system response to unfamiliar viruses).

I have some kind of TH1 abnormality that causes me to run periodic fevers, which medicine doesn't seem to understand at the moment. I had several shots of Humira, which is a drug that blocks a big inflammatory marker called TNFa, during fertility treatment, and my periods went haywire temporarily each time.

I also became pregnant about four months later... after three years of unexplained fertility. So, explain that as you may...

[bathmatty]

I had Covid-19 not the vaccine but it definitely messed up my cycle. I bled for ages last month. Never happened before. I have a period app and have been regular as clockwork for years.

Same 5 days late after covid which is unheard of for me, even did a pregnancy test as my boobs were sore. I knew I couldn't be pregnant but so confused by lateness. One dose of AZ had no impact

[ConstantlyChanging]

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the data was there in the trials but was dismissed as ‘stress’ and ‘cycles can fluctuate’ and ‘perimenopause’ etc instead of listening to women and trusting that they know their own bodies.

I went to the doctor as a teen about an illness that needed to be investigated and mentioned that my period was 3 weeks late. It was totally dismissed by the (old male) GP as ‘teenage girls often don’t have regular periods’ even though I was 17 and had had a period every 28 days with no variation since I was 12.

Everyone dismisses women’s concerns and knowledge about their own bodies (except good midwives, who will scan based on a mother’s instinct).

[Thomasina2021]

I had coronavirus March 2020 and my next period was 3 weeks late

[Haenow]

Not 100% related but I’ve noticed, as I got into my 30s, I noticed my periods were starting to be impacted by far more things; stress, illness or even change of diet.

[oldegg123]

@CosmicHeat

Or it could be that they haven't fully/properly tested it and are using everyone as lab rats. They have no idea what their synthetic pathogen is going to do as they have no long term studies or challenge trials. It scares me how willing people are to take an experimental medical technology for a virus with a 99% survival rate and an average age of death of 84

It was as "properly tested" as all other approved vaccines

It's not a synthetic pathogen

The death rate of cervical cancer is far lower but that's not a reason to not have the HPV vaccine

Long COVID and other long-term complications of infection exist, and it's not currently possible to predict what demographic is likely to be impacted