Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data

[noblegiraffe]

...because for secondary it’s very worrying.

They choose to release it the day before we break up for half term, too late for any circuit breaker like the other U.K. countries.

They’ve quietly removed the assertion that schools aren’t high risk settings from the guidance. At what point are they going to start to be honest about the risks, particularly in sixth forms and colleges?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928749/Weekly_COVID-19_and_Influenza_Surveillance_Graphs_W43_FINAL.pdf

Parents aren't teaching, they are providing the setting for learning to take place. The teachers are teaching. That's why they get paid.*

There wasn't any teaching going on from my dcs schools last time there were closures.

You can't teach from home remotely. The idea that you can is laughable.

@Marcellemouse

Didn't you lot discuss this all last night and today and yesterday and the day before?

Putting aside the fact this thread is discussing data released today, much the same as those who won’t entertain that the current situation with schools are safe discussed it last night, today, yesterday and the day before.

Tiers are the Slimming World of Public Health along with the 9pm curfew France has introduced. Oh we all watched in awe as Asia and NZ got the virus under control with its Tier System and heading home a bit early.

You can't teach from home remotely. The idea that you can is laughable

Do you mean teachers can't do this?

I really wish they would stop sending the entire year (or bubble) home in primaries. They should just send home the poorly child and maybe whoever they sit next to at lunch.

and will be remaining open on a full time basis

Well, not exactly. Many schools are not open at all to some year groups, and even more will have a group of students self-isolating. Some are closed completely.

The Government's two-faced agenda is to be able to say 'but OF COURSE he schools are open', while ignoring the hundreds of thousands of children who are out of school each day, and the cumulative many more who have missed school this year due to closures to a small group; a class; a year group or a school.

Qasd, I'm sure I read on here that only 1 in 4 primary aged children have no parent at home. So closing primary school would effect 1 in 4 families, that is by no means going to blow up the entire economy.

There wasn't any teaching going on from my dcs schools last time there were closures.

Nor for us. But some schools were much better than others and in all honesty, we should just change school if that's at all possible.

@notevenat20

I really wish they would stop sending the entire year (or bubble) home in primaries. They should just send home the poorly child and maybe whoever they sit next to at lunch.

Could you explain why? The child sharing a desk with the infected child for the entire day is probably at rather more risk than the one they sat next to at lunch?

Putting aside the fact this thread is discussing data released today, much the same as those who won’t entertain that the current situation with schools are safe discussed it last night, today, yesterday and the day before

You can't put aside the new data. That's what's being discussed. If you don't want to read it, scroll on.

Eccose do you have children?

Here is a proper study from a sane country (Germany) that shows no impact on infection rates by re-opening schools ftp.iza.org/dp13790

When we say blended learning- do we all mean half of the class comes in first half of week, second half come in second half of week and teacher teaches the same thing twice and at school and gives each half the same tasks for their home days?
Or do we mean like someone suggested, Had the class are in at any one time, the other half watch the lesson live?
The latter will fail the instant you have a child with no access to a computer. Not every child has a screen at home. Not every child has their own screen so what if you need to classes to be watched and one family computer/ iPad? You could then prioritise those without screen access to be present in school - but then some parents will pretend they don’t have a spare device to ensure their child is in and then working parents will complain. No one will win.
It’s also ridiculous to teach everything twice. My school (including myself) had to double up in the summer - teach during the day, spend early morning, breaks, lunch and after school making videos to send to home learners so that they would get the lessons in real time. Mark the children’s work who were at school, wait till everyone’s work from home came in. It’s not sustainable. I’ve already had to do this with a child who’s parent had tested positive.
The ability to do blended learning will also vary significantly across the year groups. There’s no way in heck my reception class will manage with me on a screen live.

We are all set for the inevitable. My school has spent a fortune on additional exercise books so every child has a big pack ready to take home in the event of closure. Each pack also contains two days worth of tasks and activities to keep them busy if needed (will have to be updated if not used by Christmas) to enable adequate time for teachers to switch over to online.

Schools were never going to be 100% safe. That was obvious. Even with the extra cleaning, the bubbles, the one way systems, the no sharing policies.....children aren’t getting it! Even the older ones and the two meter rule? Doesn’t work.
But there’s no winner here and as a teacher I shall plough in because that’s my job and I will take my own precautions and just pray that maybe more people will continue to take precautions.

If you are saying 'it's OK not to send home the other children who will be infected within the class, because their symptoms are mild or they are asymptomatic', could you perhaps spare a thought for the teacher, facing over 30 children who are potentially infected? Or, if you don't care about them, perhaps the vulnerable relatives that the children go home to, who would be protected much better by a swift bubble / class closure than by a steady spread of the virus to everynoe in the class?

Anniegun I beg to differ in the north west. And as JVT said in his briefing you will see that as the younger ages get it it spreads to the older ages. The 0-10 age band was pale yellow across all graphs only a week ago.

Could you explain why? The child sharing a desk with the infected child for the entire day is probably at rather more risk than the one they sat next to at lunch?

Primary school children just seem to be very little risk to themselves or others. There is also no plausible way you can keep an uninfected primary aged child in their room for 14 days. Maybe we don't need to worry about who they sat next to at lunch. I just noticed that is the French policy.

And that is exactly why schools need to and will be remaining open on a full time basis.

Until we crash into the hard cold reality of Covid-19 in winter.

We could have planned for smarter, safer schools. We didn’t. Some people like to learn the hard way.

@Qasd

Yes secondary can shut but teachers furloughed on the same wage deal as available in the private sector when sectors have to shut (so two thirds wages)

Assume teaching unions will be happy with that deal to help the greater good! Strange because poor bar staff are not so keen to shut their workplace

Anything else is going to look desperately unfair unless teachers provide full live teaching when schools shut (so can genuinely be said to be “working from home” not “I put up a worksheet and a video on Monday that is surely a full weeks work and no of course I cannot mark anything or talk to a student in any capacity didn’t they watch the video?!”

But again are teachers now happy with a full live online teaching timetable-they def said they were not in March to July!

We are now facing an economic crisis in this country expecting parents to give up work to teach children while still paying teachers full wages to not “teach” children because that is the job of parents is economically unviable in the situation we find ourselves.

Firstly, it's not possible to furlough public sector staff and secondly, staff who are furloughed are not permitted to work for the company which has furloughed them.

Who do you envisage providing the distanced learning, key worker children provision and welfare interventions that teachers provided during last school closures.

A 'full online teaching timetable' isn't what most parents want and there's no evidence at all to indicate that it's the most effective way of teaching children, let alone which age groups it is or isn't useful for.

It's also not possible if the teacher has young children at home or a dodgy internet connection.

But don't let reality get in the way of your teacher bashing.

SAGE and public health teams need to have a frank talk about schools, at the very least. We have to make decisions based on the evidence and the data. I don’t whether a ‘circuit break’ or blending learning or better protection and contact tracing or a combination. But just ignoring this?

Madness.

@anniegun for the love of god do you not realise that’s not comparable to the U.K.!!!!!!! Germany had a very low level of community transmission and a million other differences. If you open a school on the Scilly Isles at present I’m sure they won’t have cases!!!!

Germany has kids coming into school with blankets gloves and hats at present because they’ve changed the rules and windows must now be fully open at all times.

They have a scientist leading their country which is why they are faring so well!

@FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue

Another day, another scaremongering thread about schools. This is getting tedious. In my DD's school of about 1600 pupils they have had... 1 case. And how many other pupils and staff did it spread to? Zero.

You're really lucky then, if they tested them all. Around here, it is very hard to get tests for contacts.

You wouldn’t believe I was a teacher with some of my spelling errors, I hate typing on a phone

What I want to add also as a teacher (although I’m early years) I agree that exams if they’re going to be cancelled need to be cancelled now!
I also don’t judge parents who want to keep their child at home - but I don’t believe doing online and class teaching simultaneously is sustainable. I don’t know the solution.

If you are saying 'it's OK not to send home the other children who will be infected within the class, because their symptoms are mild or they are asymptomatic', could you perhaps spare a thought for the teacher, facing over 30 children who are potentially infected?

Don't forget the parents. If the primary aged children were really infectious all the parents in schools would have covid.

Yes it is madness and utterly enraging that the govt didn't have these discussions when it had the luxury of time over the summer.

@echt
You miss understood me, I was responding to the poster who asked why people keep discussing schools. I pointed out those who want schools to remain open at all costs also discuss their agenda at length. Of course new data warrants further discussion.