Teachers of infected students not required to self-isolate.

[NebularNerd]

More than one positive case at a local school.

The teachers of these students are not being required to self-isolate.

As a teacher, you can be in a room with an infected individual for at least an hour, with no mask and closer than two metres, and you aren't considered to be at risk.

And yet, if you encounter the same individual anywhere else, the NHS app will suit hat you self-isolate

Teachers are being thrown under the bus so that schools can remain open.

Teachers in one school have found out that children in their class are absent due to having tested positive as it's written on the register . When questioning it, they were told that no, they won't be isolating classes, close contacts or teachers, just carrying on as normal. Different trusts and councils have different rules. This is SW and SE London.

Let's be honest, certainly in primary it's pretty much business as usual. Just with extra handwashing, children in rows facing the front, individual equipment, and windows open until it gets too cold.

"Where possible" is to blame. Because certainly at my school, it isn't possible.

Teachers, children and all who work in schools have been dropped right in it with no care or regard for safety (how many vulnerable, previously shielding staff, children and families of those are now on the line?) Even if it is mild for most, the disruption for all is still there due to those who are ill/do have to self-isolate. Government doesn't care as long as childcare is there for workers, just wish they'd stop the pretence it's about anything else and that schools are Covid secure when they blatantly are not.

We're operating on luck and just hoping we won't get too badly affected. Herd immunity by stealth.

"This will all come out in the end."

I can't believe it hasn't come out yet. Surely at some point someone will need to be held accountable. I also feel for vulnerable families/parents who are being told to send their children in or face fines.

Kids in our local school are not facing front in rows, they are sitting around small tables, as usual.

@Yetiyoga

OP if this is happening in your school then this is wrong. Teachers don't have to isolate because they have a dedicated area they stay in and aren't getting closer than 2 metres to their pupils. This is secondary,I have lots of teachers in my family and friendship groups. Unless you are in the classroom, you can't possibly comment. The child could have been sat at the back of the classroom. Teachers should be wearing a mask in corridors. If the teacher had got in closer contact than 2 metres then they would inform the head and would be at home isolating.

No. The assumption is we are 2m away. In my room if a stand with my back to the wall I’m still not 2m from the front row. This is known. But I don’t have to self isolate - if secondary teachers did there would be no teachers in schools as each pupil has about 12 or 14 teachers. Teachers wearing masks doesn’t help a lot as this main,y protects pupils from them. It’s ridiculous.

What is this handwashing of which you speak??

There is no dedicated area in any of the classrooms I work in.

Because I'm also dealing with behaviour issues I can't stand at the front anyway. I need to circulate to make sure the students are on task or to hand out books/pens.

I have to move classrooms for every lesson and in so doing I'm moving through packed corridors, often passing multiple students as I enter the room.

I've no choice in any of this, nor is there anything I can do differently to make myself safer.

I'm just crossing my fingers basically.

I'm lucky, I'm managing to maintain the 2m distance so far, so didn't need to isolate when one of my students tested positive last week. But I teach Science and have one of the largest classrooms in school. It's impossible for teachers in smaller classrooms, and totally impossible with younger kids. My DD started reception this year, and the staff seem to be adopting a 'hope for the best' approach because really beyond spend as much time outdoors and keep windows and doors open as much as possible, what can they realistically do?!

I have absolutely knocked the pen thing on the head and you shouldn't need to be the one handing out books... small issues mind.

I would have to superglue myself to the board to be even 1.5 m away from my front row.

I need to circulate to make sure the students are on task or to hand out books/pens.

I'm not doing this. I'm getting kids to hand out stuff or pass it back to people who need it, and I'm just monitoring who is on task from the front. If I miss some kids doing nothing then so be it, I'm not going to get told off for circulating against the risk assessment when someone comes down with it.

Still less than 2m from the kids at the front though.

@Piggywaspushed

I have absolutely knocked the pen thing on the head and you shouldn't need to be the one handing out books... small issues mind.

I would have to superglue myself to the board to be even 1.5 m away from my front row.

We aren't supposed to hand out pens but the behaviour is so bad that if the kids don't have pens, they will use this a reason to sit, do nothing and disrupt the lesson.

As for books, I do ask kids to hand them out but they deliberately take ages to do this/throw them across the room, so sometimes I find it easier just to do it myself.

I don't want to do these things but it's a toss up sometimes between safety and behaviour. I just don't know what to do. I wish I wasn't in this position.
🤷‍♀️

@noblegiraffe

I need to circulate to make sure the students are on task or to hand out books/pens.

I'm not doing this. I'm getting kids to hand out stuff or pass it back to people who need it, and I'm just monitoring who is on task from the front. If I miss some kids doing nothing then so be it, I'm not going to get told off for circulating against the risk assessment when someone comes down with it.

Still less than 2m from the kids at the front though.

Agree. I’m not circulating or handing anything out. Not marking books either - they submit photos to google classroom. We have some books for assessments which I can quarantine before marking and again before returning, so I mark those as normal. I’m supply covering a maternity leave. If they aren’t happy with this they are welcome to end my daily booking and find someone else. Good luck finding someone so experienced and expert though...

I never take kids books in; they get used to it. I think we nursemaid kids...

But, yeah, it's tough...

@NebularNerd Don’t. Do. It.
Call SLT to behaviour. Tell them why you can’t deal yourself. It’s in the risk assessment. They can’t expect you To do these things.

@phlebasconsidered

What people aren't getting is the manipulation of it. I'm a teacher and I am absolutely expected to mark, work up close to and be with the class as normal. Pressure from the Trust ensures this. However, should I or a pupil be ill, there would also be pressure on me to say that I have consistently been 2m away from the pupils. None of this is explicitly stated to you as a teacher - it's just obvious. The academy trusts are above all else businesses that need to be open.

Just like in politics, there's a lot of weasel words. Staying away from pupils is my responsibility. Making them stay away from each other is also my responsibility. I have to teach and mark as normal and my end of year targets (which dictate my pay) are as normal.

So when i'm told, by senior leaders in offices, toget on and teach and meet targets regardless, what do I do? Say I can't? Say it isn't safe to be up close? (It is impossible to explain long division to a child that is behind without being close).

So we have to do it or be bullied out of a job in many trusts. I don't know any LEA schools now. They might be different. We can't strike because academy school teachers are a different entity and unions have no say over them - they are private businesses.

Did people honestly not think the academisation of schools would be problematic? Because business does social care, equality and welfare SO well... .

I apologise for my tone. I am exhausted and very down about it all. For me and the class.

Please, never apologise phleb, it’s so important people read that this is happening.

@NebularNerd yep it’s the same for me. Room change every lesson, must circulate the room to enforce any sort of behaviour management. Our kids will not write anything unless I’m stood over them.

If there is a positive case I won’t need to isolate as I will have always been 2m away apparently. Despite the fact it’s impossible to do my job this way.

We aren’t even being made aware if a child or colleague is off because they have tested positive, or just because they are self isolating. We are all scared.

AFIAK, if you have concerns about a secondary school breaking their risk assessment, you can report to the local authority. Or so I have been told re another local school.

We have been told we can circulate the room if we wear a mask. I don't know if that's an option/allowed in other schools- but honestly I think it's probably as safe as standing at the front with 30 kids breathing towards you for 50-75 minutes.

There's maybe two rooms I teach in where the 2m distance is genuinely possible. For context, I teach in 11 different rooms if we count tutor time. Even in one of the rooms where 2m distancing is possible, it isn't really because the students have to come very close to my "area" to leave/enter the room (albeit this is usually brief). It's hard to explain, but it's a science lab with a weird layout. The ventilation in there is also crap.

In some, 1m distance isn't possible. In one of these rooms, I rearranged the desks to create more space, but they were back literally 1m from the front wall of the classroom by the next week. If a child in the front row of that class gets ill, I'm not going to say I was always 2m away.

I also do 4 duties a week where it is impossible to distance. Some, but not all, of these are outside though. In the corridors, distance also isn't being maintained, and in some cases, there are crossovers between year groups too, but no-one is interested in this. I've tried to raise issues via the relevant SLT people, but they aren't interested, so now everything is just going to my union rep.

It should be everyone's concern, because it will be teachers passing it between bubbles that makes children ill and at the very least inconveniences families. But schools can't stay open with too many teachers off.

it will be teachers passing it between bubbles that makes children ill

Oh yeah, remember Matt Hancock having a mini panic at the thought that teachers might not stay 2m away from the kids and spread it between bubbles. Not that anyone followed up on that.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4007363-Teachers-could-be-superspreaders-due-to-lack-of-mitigation-measures-admits-Matt-Hancock

I'm lucky enough to have a spacious classroom. Even so I'm 2m away at a push, if I stay next to the wall. The problem is that I have to sort the cleaning of the tables between lessons, cleaning and distributing laptops and headphones, kids wanting to show me their work - it's impossible. I also have to walk in the midst of a sea of pupils from form to my classroom, and work in an open area through which three year groups pass and congregate at the end of the day.

I'm luckier than other subject teachers though. I covered MFL in tiny rooms a few times last week and the nearest desks were easily within a metre of the front of the room.

I don't have a way out. There's no way I can afford to leave. I just have to take my chances. I feel so resentful of the people working from home in safety, telling us to out and shut up so they can do their jobs in peace.

I also dread having to SI because I will have to set live cover for every lesson.

OP if this is happening in your school then this is wrong. Teachers don't have to isolate because they have a dedicated area they stay in and aren't getting closer than 2 metres to their pupils. This is secondary,I have lots of teachers in my family and friendship groups.
Unless you are in the classroom, you can't possibly comment. The child could have been sat at the back of the classroom. Teachers should be wearing a mask in corridors. If the teacher had got in closer contact than 2 metres then they would inform the head and would be at home isolating
I was going to say the same.

My school has staff in a dedicated teacher zone and any circulation should be minim for as little time as possible. If a student tests positive then we are informed and unless we inform our head that we've had close contact then we don't need to isolate. If we've needed to be in close contact then we inform the head and we isolate.

I am at my wits end:

Specific instructions from SLT that break their own risk assessment regarding students in corridors. Pointed out, no reponse.

Extra duties that mean no lunch time - sorted by allocating PPA before or after - but you are asking me to take my lunch in PPA? No response.

Students taking absolutely NO notice of the requirement to keep 2m from staff - but you've got a mask on Miss - that protects you not me.

Students doing no work so I have to circulate to keep them on task. OK I don't but it means the learning atmosphere in the room is affected. Last week I emailed every parent of every student I felt forced me to do this detailing the health and safety risk. No response from any parent.

Can not remove students from classrooms due to inability to mix class bubbles.
I am thinking sending every student who is doing no work to the pastoral office this week and see what happens.

Students do not clean desk properly. Parents complain. We are told off. I clean the desks myself now, 7 times a day. At least the students do not ask me about clean desks - they know not too. After day 1 and my hand stinging from exposure to cheap consortium cleaning spray I now wear rubber gloves (bought myself).

But the parents are happy - their children are in school and behaving perfectly because no teacher has any time to log bad behavior [smiley]

@RingPiece

I conducted a little survey of the London schools I used to work in ( thankfully, I'm no longer a teacher) and in all of then, there have been cases of children isolating at home after having tested positive. None of their teachers were asked to isolate and nor were any of the children in their class. Teachers were told not to mention the positive cases and to carry on as normal. Some of these teachers were shielding during lockdown. Obviously the government wants them to succumb to covid eventually otherwise this would not be standard policy.

Also there are at-risk children innocently attending school. Schools are NOT informing parents of cases in their vulnerable children's classes.

There is NO distancing. Teachers are told to forget the rules and teach as before....groups on round tables, groups moving round the school, mixed intervention groups across classes but only in KS1 (as they're less likely to go home and say what they did that day).

They are told to make sure children are distanced when lining up at home time (Y2) so their parents think the rules are being followed.

This will all come out in the end.

This does not surprise me one bit. It is a scandal.

This does not surprise me one bit. It is a scandal.
There are clearly some headteachers who are going against what is now standard PH advice. They are choosing to do what's best for their staff and children by sharing information about positive tests and having year groups, including their teachers, isolate.

In the future, it will be those heads people will want to work for. It will be those heads people will trust to look after and educate their children. The rest, who are encouraging the virus to rip through families and communities, should be named and shamed.

I just feel so desperately sorry for all of you. I left my job as TA at the beginning of all of this, I could see the writing on the wall. I'm lucky, I don't need to work for financial reasons, but I loved my job and was good at it.
I think all students and staff should be wearing masks at the very least. And I was against that previously because I felt it would be too distracting and uncomfortable for a lot of children. But having seen the appalling the lack of concern for teachers wellbeing, I think this is the only sensible way ahead. Not enough, but something at least.