New rules - impact on extracurricular activities?

[avenueq]

Ds's drama group was due to restart. Educational therefore go ahead? Or social therefore no?

[RedToothBrush]

@Hitchyhero

Basically if the activity involved a cash register, or a transfer of money, it can be done.

No. Its more whether its a formal setting which has clearly laid out rules and an ability / obligation to honestly engage and assist with track and trace.

If you are informally meeting your mates and family there isnt this same sense of responsibility and there isnt the same professional responsibility / company liability to report health and safety incidents. Its too easy for family or friends to have a drink and go 'oh fuck it' and then start hugging / kissing etc because there is no one with a clear cut 'official' enforcement role.

So yes it is about both priority making (hence why health and education are being promoted as reasons for exemptions) and why bars / restaurants are being allowed to continue to operate (not just for financial reason but also because prohibition leads to demand being met by things like illegal house parties or raves and clandestine restaurants, hair dressers etc - where it become much more difficult to track and trace). This is also why things like knitting club are likely to be missed off because a) you aren't going to get a huge problem with gorilla knitting clubs b) their closure doesn't create as many side affects c) how much of a priority they are in the bigger picture.

People also are more likely to forget informal meetings that arent regularly scheduled and the names of everyone at a larger gathering. I believe 6 is the optimum number that people easily remember.

The overall point is that social interactions have to be more limited, ranked in terms of priorities and controlled and managed in a way that makes it as easy as possible for fast and efficient track and trace.

At the heart of the increased restrictions is the weaknesses in the UK's track and trace system which the government is struggling to get a grip on. These problems stem from reliance on telephone tracing rather than on the ground tracing (which is why several hard hit councils set up their own local systems), lack of trust in government (not helped by discrimination and economic marginalisation and language and cultural barriers which the government have been slow to recognise and try and resolve at community level - because they operate in such a centralised and one size fits all mentality.

As i say. This is about track and trace success rates being too low. Understand that and the rest makes sense.

[KindKylie]

I think the difference comes from people perceive as being beneficial surely?!

Stopping my family from meeting up with my brother's family (10 total) for a dog walk and cake at a cafe (which is massively beneficial to us all - my DC love their cousins and we all get to chat, catch up and offer support to each other while exercising outside) but allowing loads of people from loads of different households to convene in a gym and take part in an exercise class (which they could do alone and outside anywhere) makes no obvious sense to me. It's making value judgements about how people spend their free time and not based on actual risk.

[Daisyrainy]

@KihoBebiluPute hallelujah, thank you! Your post is one of the most sensible I have read anywhere, not just on here. A frightening amount of people just don't get it, including my peers in my hobby, they make me want to scream! Your post was so refreshing to read!

[KihoBebiluPute]

It makes sense to me. The virus isn't an intelligent or predictable enemy, we are dealing with chaotic systems and unknown probabilities here. The 2m distance rule isn't there because at 1.9m from an infected person you will definitely get infected but at 2.1m you are definitely safe, but rather that the closer you are, the more dangerous it is, and 2m was decided on as an achievable goal that is a reasonable balance between reducing risk while still being close enough to hear each other speak. Similarly there isn't a set number of people who can gather together safely and one more than that is dangerous - it's a curve of gradually increasing risk when there are more people gathered. In general across all of society and the economy we need to strike a balance between reducing risk as far as possible, whilst ensuring that life can go on within reasonable precautions. This means that we accept that it is OK to gather more people together when it is achieving a valuable purpose - e.g. earning a living, educating a child, or in other ways contributing to the fabric of society with activities etc because it is about balancing risk with benefit - but we need to have limits in place to make people stop and think and not organise gatherings that don't have such a wider purpose but are purely social, because in those cases there isn't as much benefit to be gained from taking the risk. There is nothing special about the number 6 any more than there is anything special about the distance of 2m, it is just a number which people can work with to enable there to be small gatherings that enable people to keep their social contacts going. There would be just as much moaning if the government had specified 7, 8 or 9 people.

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

Major difference is that at the Youth groups, they would be expected to stay 2m apart.

[KindKylie]

None of this is very explicit is it?!

It seems a bit strange to me that my DC could meet up with all their cousins at cubs or drama group, indoors and with lots of other children - but we mustn't meet up as 2 families for a play on the beach?

Surely as the logic is harder to see, compliance will reduce anyway?

[Hitchyhero]

Basically if the activity involved a cash register, or a transfer of money, it can be done.

[Frazzled2207]

@MadameBlobby
That’s totally the opposite of what is true.
If it comes under kids/exercise/education it’s fine

My MiL’s embroidery group and Choir- far less clear.

[KihoBebiluPute]

@KindKylie the link from @nannynick above lists in section 2.10

There will be exceptions where groups can be larger than 6 people, including:
...
• for work, and voluntary or charitable services
...
• participate in children’s playgroups
...
• youth groups or activities

[MadameBlobby]

Doubt it

Things that benefit kids and young people- won’t be allowed.

Things that benefit pensioners (who mainly vote Tory) and big business (Boris’s pals) - will be

[bestbefore]

This may apply to your activities but TBH it's not v clear IMHO www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-the-safe-use-of-multi-purpose-community-facilities/covid-19-guidance-for-the-safe-use-of-multi-purpose-community-facilities

[Frazzled2207]

It’s on the government new faq- yes they can

[KindKylie]

I can't seem to find anything that clearly says groups can go ahead if they are held in indoor spaces not gyms?

[KihoBebiluPute]

thank you that's great - yes seems all these drama, swimming and youth group activities are fine to go ahead.
also I am very glad to see that political protests are also a specific exception, subject to a strict risk assessment.

[nannynick]

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

[KihoBebiluPute]

where from @avenueq ? I haven't been able to find this "more detailed guidance" which was said to be going to come out on Wednesday.

Does an outdoor well-distanced Pilates or Yoga class count as "organised sports"

[avenueq]

I've now had confirmation that drama group can go ahead.

[RedRumTheHorse]

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

My gut feeling will be paid for activity= fine. But they can't go to the park with a group of friends.

Listening to a radio phone-in and this is what they interpret the law as.

Also it is less strict than the current rules we are suppose to be following in England. So 6 separate individuals from 6 households can meet up from Monday.

[RedToothBrush]

Some quotes from the bbc lead article on this

There are some exceptions to the new rules. Households and support bubbles bigger than six can socialise together - but not with anyone else at the same time - and gatherings can be more than six if it is for work or education purposes.

What counts as educational purposes? Is this just school?

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, said the new rules did not affect places of worship as that is "not a social gathering".

And Parkrun - which earlier this week announced it was to resume in England - is "unaffected" as it is an organised sport, its organisers said.

No 10 said any group of seven or more people gathering anywhere "risks being dispersed by police or fined for non-compliance".

BBC political correspondent Nick Eardley pointed out that pubs and restaurants would be allowed to have more than six customers inside, but that the groups of six would have to be socially distant from each other.

The rationale behind allowing this, but not allowing larger groups of people inside other people's homes, is that businesses can only be open if they follow safety and hygiene measures set out by the government, he added.

Which does sound generally promising.

[AlexaShutUp]

I'm also wondering about this. DD went back to drama last week, and has been back at dance for a few weeks.

I'm guessing that dance might count as an organised sport, but not so sure about drama.

[LloydBC]

So fed up. Toddler music class had just restarted, we were booking in at a local and very well managed soft play and now on tenterhooks waiting for clarifications this afternoon.

We are a family of 5, including an 8 month old, so we can only technically meet with 1 other person if we are all together. It feels like such a step backwards 😢

[RedToothBrush]

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

My gut feeling will be paid for activity= fine. But they can't go to the park with a group of friends.

Yeah it could well be.

The purpose of the ban is about risk limitation.

So any situation which isn't covered by a formal risk assessment.

It remains to be seen, but i suspect its more about stopping marauding gangs of teenagers and crazy student home parties than anything further at this stage.

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

My gut feeling will be paid for activity= fine. But they can't go to the park with a group of friends.

[starfishmummy]

Who knows. I go to an adult ed class so as well as not knowing if venues will be open - some are, some aren't and noe theres now this uncertainty!!

[mrsknottschicken]

I'm wondering about martial arts too.