It’s reported that 17-21 are spreading the virus now , should Universities open ??

[Charliescar]

Just that really ??

I don’t see why schools should shut if Universities can stay open .

I think that students are far more Likely to spread the virus that students at school.

For as long as we expect everyone else to look after society

It's ghastly for everyone. It's slightly less ghastly now than back in April , we have more freedom than we had

What we have is many people acting sensibly, but too are many breaking or bending the rules so that the effect will be that we will lose some of those freedoms as a result.

People in caerfilly now can't go on holiday because other people there have bent the rules too much. I bet they are really happy about that.

The shambles of this government isn't helping, we should have proper testing, tracing, and pay for isolation

But what can they do, re private landlords, if the tenancies are of the 'jointly and severally liable' sort, and are legal contracts?

I suppose they can look over the contract for fairness and 'get out clauses', but that's about it.

I do sympathise - we are still dealing with my DS's former shitty landlord over 'joint liability for deductions', for which I need

Errol - would be great if they can keep their halls rooms over Xmas. I’m sure the international students will need to stay so they might as well. Not heard about that yet - just shows how much needs to be worked out!

DS halls allowed occupation over the Xmas hols in all halls, and Easter hols in some (others had to vacate as the halls were used as conference accommodation)

Yep, the attempt to blame the young is sickening.

We’ll just destroy your education, your jobs, saddle with you a load of debt for our response to a virus that doesn’t affect you. No we are not going to give you any indication of when this might end, here are some vague moving goal posts. Now behave.

DD has already signed a years contract for her second year student flat and is off next week, whether studies are online or not. She's desperate to get back to life outside home, even if restricted - she and her friends have been generally really good at sticking to the rules and she is careful as I'm shielding. But the reality is she'll be much better off living at her new place and not worrying about bringing covid home to me - she said she'd be prepared to stay there over Christmas if things get worse.

Her course is very practical so they can't possibly teach all of it or even most of it online, so they're going ahead with SD measures as far as they can. I think that generation need the chance to get their education now. She's already had to miss a 10 week placement over the summer with no clue about when she'll be able to get that vital learning in.

Unis should open, as schools have, but students be asked to keep to SD rules. I know some of them won't but many will. They're not all feckless party monsters who don't care about spreading Covid.

Yes Alec

Of course they must open.

Universities do have measures in place. Eg at my DD’s uni when I drop her off, I’m not even allowed in her accommodation block to help her unload the stuff into her flat - she’s in Scotland (it’s going to take her a long time but may make for a more stress-free drop-off for me and be a once-in-a-life lesson in the perils of over-packing). We’ll have to say goodbye in the car park!

The suggestion that universities should not open is both short-sighted for the wider economy and incredibly selfish in relation to this generation of young adults.

I hope Unis enforce the new "6 person" rule re student socialising. It's a good compromise to allow social interaction without increasing the Covid risk too much.

I hope Unis enforce the new "6 person" rule re student socialising. It's a good compromise to allow social interaction without increasing the Covid risk too much.

I am sure they won't. In general the only control unis have over students is in the rules set for student accommodation.

They won't. They can apply sanctions to students found breaking the rules once they're in force, and if they had the resources (which they don't) they could try and enforce it on their own premises. They could also try and influence local private venues, though that would be pretty touch and go. But they're not going to be able to actually ensure compliance across the board. Hundreds of thousands of students live in accommodation the universities have no control over, whether with each other or family members. If you're a student and your only physical engagement with the university is attendance on premises quite infrequently, there's nothing much they can do to keep an eye on you the rest of the time.

@Badbadbunny

I hope Unis enforce the new "6 person" rule re student socialising. It's a good compromise to allow social interaction without increasing the Covid risk too much.

How can universities do this?

We don't own accommodation and we don't have an onsite bar. We can prevent groups congregating on campus but other than that it's out of our control ..... they're adults after all

I'd hope Unis police it on their property (halls, bars/shops/cafes on campuses etc) and then hope the local councils/police enforce it in town/city centres. I know Unis have no power outside their properties but they do en-site.

I think that children and young people should not be getting penalised for this .

I wish they would close the bars and restaurants again , maybe just have them open in the day .

It’s not going so well is it?

Hopefully the government will now see sense and halt the return to universities.

Do people really want to shut everything until there is a vaccine?

@Egghead68

It’s not going so well is it?

Hopefully the government will now see sense and halt the return to universities.

This is just so short sighted. What do you expect to happen in a few years time when there are significantly depleted numbers of doctors, nurses, midwifes, dentists, teachers etc not to mention other professions because we halted university this year? 6000 medical students qualify in the UK each year so I look forward to in 6 years time when we have 6000 less junior doctors doing the rounds and how that will work!

It doesn’t need to be halted. The vast majority of the tuition can be continued online from home.

As opposed to online from halls of residence.

@Egghead68 can someone train to be a doctor, nurse, dentist or midwife from a zoom call?

Because you can't study some subjects like medicine from a laptop. You need to be in a hospital even from the first year but especially in later years. If this was a national crisis which had a defined short period of time then I would perhaps agree but this could very conceivably go on for years so shutting universities is not a long term solution.

I do find it strange that we are having these discussion. My DH lives in the Netherlands and there is much less hysteria about everything. They are not testing under 12s anymore. Schools are in. Universities have started. They are being practical and trying to get on with life while living with the virus. They have a balance. Here it seems to be all or nothing.

The government thinking is that the current crisis does indeed have a defined short period of time (6 months, after which we should have better testing/tracing/treatments and vaccines). Surely it’s worth planning on that basis for now and rethink if these things don’t come to pass (which seems unlikely given the promising results for vaccines and treatments so far).

On this basis, medical students (and students of other practical subjects) could do their theory now remotely and wait till post March to do their practicals/hospital work. Alternatively medical students could do it now in hospitals close to their homes.

We need to be realistic, we can't have everything. We want youngsters to continue their education and the risk to them individually is small. However there's an uproar when it is suggested that people from a population where the virus is relatively prevalent shouldn't be able to travel the length and breadth of the country, seeding the virus into more vulnerable populations. We can't have both.

For many families students will plan to come home for christmas, and within a short time afterwards will be mixing with relatives of all ages, often including the elderly.

They either need to stay at home where the risk of contracting the virus is lower, or go off to be inadequate relatively infectious bubble, socialise within their own low risk populations, but not come home at will, and certainly not at Christmas when so much intergenerational mixing is expected.

If students come home for christmas how can they not mix with elderly relatives, unless elderly relatives won't be invited for Christmas this year? In our family Christmas is a time when several older family members spend the day with us, when otherwise they would be at home on their own. It's also a day when social distancing is near impossible for many - spare chairs come out to accommodate everyone, more people round the table than normal, etc.

In my view students who don't want to go away and stay away should be supported to learn remotely, at home. Those who want to go off and have the student experience, c/w parties etc, should be able to do so, but on the proviso that they aren't coming back for Christmas. We wouldn't be talking about a few lonely people left behind when everyone heads home, their friends and room mates would all still be there. Many gap year students go off backpacking, missing a Christmas at home.

@Egghead68 there won’t be a vaccine in 6 months.