The great covid divide!

[notth]

Is it just me and my friends and family or is there seemingly a fence you're on one side of?

Half the people in my life (all ages and health) are over the whole thing - no fear, just want to take the risk and get on with life and the other half are terrified of doing activities we are allowed to do and don't a remotely normal life until 'there's a vaccine'.

I was really anxious at first but as time goes on I am leaning towards the latter (although still following rules but more due to guilt if I didn't rather than fear)

[fuckingcovid]

I think younger people are more relaxed about it and so they should be. Their risk is minimal. Older people and those with health issues are still very wary of the situation.

The sensible thing to do is SD and wear a mask, hand wash and gel etc.

We have a duty to protect the vulnerable and just being sensible, not too laid back or too anxious, is the way forward.

[ChavvySexPond]

@mac12

I am pro hand washing
Fantastic, who isn't? But how does it protect you from airborne transmission of the virus?

I'm against masks and SD which have no scientific evidence
Head. Wall. Repeat.

If someone now comes on and says "we never did this for the flu/measles/plague" and "children don't transmit the virus" then we can call Covid-19 Bingo full house.

It's been months. Anyone still clinging to those old chestnuts must be actively avoiding learning.

[mac12]

I am pro hand washing
Fantastic, who isn't? But how does it protect you from airborne transmission of the virus?

I'm against masks and SD which have no scientific evidence
Head. Wall. Repeat.

If someone now comes on and says "we never did this for the flu/measles/plague" and "children don't transmit the virus" then we can call Covid-19 Bingo full house.

[Thirtyrock39]

There's always been a divide- I was very scared to start with and got very angry about friends and relatives not following rules (back when it was lockdown and very clear) - there was a time when I was likely to be redeployed to a Covid ward as well so that added to my stress levels.
I think now there's shades of grey and not such stark divides-
I still stick to the rules and do get annoyed at those that don't but am more relaxed about things such as being relatively safe outdoors so will go to a pub garden, go to parks and playgrounds, still don't like mixing households inside though we have had family to stay (found this stressful)
We are close to a lockdown area which obvs has an impact on how 'real' the virus is and I'm nhs so have to be very cautious at work.
I really worry about schools closing though and want them open - husband is deputy head so I am aware of the stress for teachers that this term brings.
My in laws are complete Covid sceptics and furious about the whole thing - they claim it's because of impact on economy etc but really I think they just don't like being told what to do and don't like having to plan ahead to go to the pub .

[ChavvySexPond]

@SengaStrawberry

You’re not on the reality side if you can’t accept that people will die. Do you think science can and should stop all people getting ill and dying ever or does it only apply to Covid?

And also on the opposite side from the all or nothing histrionic types.

[SengaStrawberry]

You’re not on the reality side if you can’t accept that people will die. Do you think science can and should stop all people getting ill and dying ever or does it only apply to Covid?

[ChavvySexPond]

I'm on the maths, science, reality side of everything ever.

On Covid I consider myself on the opposite side of the divide from the

"Well, yes, people will be hospitalised, people will die and others will be left with long term health conditions, which is a terrible shame but..."

types.

[walksen]

I think you are oversimplifying things.

Most people are getting on with things within the guidelines maybe with the occasional lapse.

Some people dgaf and do whatever some maybe being ultra cautious.

It does feel annoying when you follow the rules but then have to abandon plans when you get local lockdowns.

[PiataMaiNei]

@SomewhereEast

Re childcare....I'd say thats the biggest engine of rule breaking round my way. Parents needing to work, or just needing a break after months of having the kids 24/7. I don't think the Gov has any idea how much many people rely on the kind of informal childcare the rules theoretically ban.

This is what happens when you don't have any low or moderate income people in the room when those decisions are made.

[SomewhereEast]

Re childcare....I'd say thats the biggest engine of rule breaking round my way. Parents needing to work, or just needing a break after months of having the kids 24/7. I don't think the Gov has any idea how much many people rely on the kind of informal childcare the rules theoretically ban.

[SomewhereEast]

Almost everyone I know (including higher risk) people are basically in the "We need to live our lives" camp now. Most are reasonably rule observant though, 'reasonably' in that almost everyone is being mildly flexible here and there (I don't know a single parent who tries to socially distance their kids from each other any more). But no one's throwing big parties or buggering off to Spain without quarantining or whatever. I find MN fascinating at the moment because its so different from my actual life. For example everyone I know keeps the mask rules, but everyone is also quite open about finding masks a PITA, which is a heretical opinion here apparently.

[Newjez]

[quote ChubbyPigeon]@BigglesLiesAgain

We didng have a cure for 'lockdown deaths'. You are spouting total bs

If we hadnt locked down you have no idea how many people would have died. You have no idea how the NHS would have coped, the NHS made the decision to stop routine health services seperate to the lockdown because hospitals were overwhelmed. Do you think cancer ops can go ahead if ITU is full of covid patients? Cancer ops get cancelled every january because theres no beds. Not to mention the risk of bringing a vunerable, immunocompromised patient into an overwhelmed hospital, full of patients with a deadly disease.

Youh ave no idea how peoples mental health would have coped had we not locked down, do you think we would have just carried on as normal with a pandemic raging around us? No. Obviously plenty of people would have isolated regardless of the law, do you think people would have carried on eating out, going to pubs etc? I doubt it. The week pre lockdown I was terrified, I am okay now and erring on the side of living my life but just image that fear escalating exponentially as it was.[/quote]
Great post.

Why do people find this so hard to understand?

They seem to compare lockdown against having no virus.

Sure, if we had no virus, then things would have been great. But that wasn't an option.

[ChaBishkoot]

Well the USA especially Florida and Arizona are good examples of what happens if people decide to ignore all rules.
ICUs are overwhelmed as are hospitals. People are not dying because most are young but there are lots of very sick young people taking up hospital space (and will probably have long term consequences).

[PiataMaiNei]

In other words following the rules where they suit (ie applying hand gel) but doing what they want when it doesn't..... you know doing 36 in a 30 limit sort of thing.... sensible common sense... bending of the rules!

Plenty of people have simply had no option other than family for childcare at times, so it's hardly akin to choosing to break the speed limit.

[Ethelfleda]

I’m done with it all now.
I was never terrified but cautious I would say.

I do not support lockdown now. At the beginning, earlier and for a shorter time. Carrying it on much further or locking down again is outrageous.
I have never felt so miserable in all my life. I do not feel like myself. I’m sick of working AND living in the same cramped building. I’m sick of this weather. I’m sick of Groundhog Day. If someone told me I had to live like this for another year or whatever, I’m not sure what I would do.

[middleager]

I was very cautious at the start, but I have two children going into year 10 and am more concerned about their education.

I also work in education (non teaching) and will be crowbarred into a tiny office with others, so not much point worrying about elsewhere when I spend 7 hours a day like this!

[lifeafter50]

I agree that it is a spectrum rather than an binary divide and has been the bye resting to see who sits where on that spectrum, I am pro hand washing and used to do how we are now advised to anyway and was scientifically proven to be effective donkey's years ago when someone identified puerpal fever deaths lower when medics washed hands (Edward Lister?)
Am against masks and SD which have no scientific evidence to indicate they are effective, but are a sop to people who are superstitious and need a talisman to 'keep them safe'.
Had been cleansing to just stop seeing the mask hysterics -easy way to cull imitation people from one's social circle.

[LordOftheRingz]

Lock downs were to flatten the curve and protect the NHS.

New Zealand has just gone back into full lockdown over 4 cases.

It is becoming pretty obvious that considering the NHS never got overwhelmed, even at the height, there is now more going on than we know about.

The continual flip flopping over masks, the continued use of social shaming to enforce policy.

I believe covid is real, I follow advice , but things are not looking clear at all.

[1dayatatime]

I also share your fear that a lot more people will die because of the lockdown policy and wide spread fear of Covid than they ever will from the actual virus.

Of particular concern to me is that cancer referrals are down 60% due to coronavirus:

www.itv.com/news/2020-06-11/huge-drop-in-nhs-cancer-referrals-due-to-covid-19

And that is before we get onto long mental health impacts, increases in deaths due to economic recession, children's education, job losses etc . This was all pointed out at the time but was shouted down as "lives are more important than the economy".

[ravensoaponarope]

I don't fit into either camp. I am being extremely cautious, but not through fear. Just because I don't want to risk spreading/catching the virus.

[frozendaisy]

I think the Covid divide will be more complicated shortly. It will be between people who have children (or young adults) whose vital school years (university, early careers) have been disrupted, we have a going into y5 and y7, this is not ideal but it's not y10, 11, 12 or 13.

Those whom emerge financially ok and those that don't.

And those whom lives or health are directly affected by either Covid or delayed other treatments.

Whether you wear a mask or pass someone closely in a supermarket I think is not the divide line.

So we follow the rules, possibly on the stricter side, to try and prevent for all in society including ourselves, the worse case scenario. What else can we do?

[jasjas1973]

Most people I know are mainly following the rules while allowing some leeway for sensibly thought out, common sense, bending of the rules

In other words following the rules where they suit (ie applying hand gel) but doing what they want when it doesn't..... you know doing 36 in a 30 limit sort of thing.... sensible common sense... bending of the rules!

[KitKatastrophe]

@LemonTT

No, everyone I know takes a fairly pragmatic view of things. We need to be cautious, follow scientific advice on how to avoid infection but get on with life, work and love.

If you are adamant about anything to do with the current situation then you are a fool, either way.

Agreed. Most people I know are mainly following the rules while allowing some leeway for sensibly thought out, common sense, bending of the rules (e.g. forming a bubble with young healthy grandparents in order to provide childcare)

But most people I know are intelligent and have the ability to read statistics, think critically and assess risk in a sensible way. A large proportion of the population are not good at understanding statistics and risk. Therefore they either believe everything in the media and follow the rules TO THE LETTER and further, or they are hyper critical of the media and ignore the rules completely.

(People with high risk conditions excepted as of course the risk level is different for everyone and this should modify our personal responses)

[Flaxmeadow]

I tried to follow the rules as best I could but slackened off a bit recently, but trying again. I'm in a local lockdown area

I think the daily briefings in England ended too soon. They should have moved to briefings every other day maybe or 3 days on week days.

Some restrictions were lifted in June but we are still supposed to be in a lockdown, even if it is lighter, but a lot of people think it's over. It's too easy to forget about the current recommendations and rules but they are still in place