To think not opening public toilets is a mistake?

[KitKat1985]

So several open spaces near us have started to re-open (think some National Trust sites and beauty posts). Obviously cafes and shops on site remain closed, which makes sense. But I do disagree with not opening the toilets on site. I get the point is to try and discourage people from staying too long but it also means:

1. There's nowhere for people to wash their hands, which surely should be a priority.
   
2. It's really discriminatory for people who really need to be able to access a toilet at short notice and can't necessarily 'hold it' for long, such as people with certain medical issues or people with very young children.
   
3. I've heard that some people who haven't been able to 'hold it' are going for 'a quick wee in the bushes' in some of these places which is pretty poor from a hygiene point of view, at a time when surely hygiene is most important?

[TimeWastingButFun]

Can you imagine the germs for other people using them and for the cleaners? Best to stay close-ish to home so you don't need them - carry a porta potty for the little ones.

[Artesia]

It's a shit show

Literally, it would seem....

[MrsAvocet]

I agree with you OP.
I think the idea that keeping car parks and public toilets shut will discourage people from travelling is misguided.Ideally of course people should not be going out for so long that they need to empty their bladder or bowels, but I think it is hopelessly optimistic to believe that everyone will abide by that. Once they have been given the ok to travel then lots of people are going to do so. Some will be excited to get out and won't even think about toilet facilities, some probably don't really believe that there is absolutely nowhere open, and sadly some just don't care. I live in a fairly touristy area, but outside the most popular part and even here I've noticed an increase in cars parked on verges and along narrow lanes. It might not be illegal, but it is definitely not sensible. Friends who live closer to the real tourist hot spot have told me that the congestion has been significant, bins are overflowing and visitors have been relieving themselves in bushes etc. Rubbish has apparently included dirty nappies and discarded PPE.
Now I know I am lucky to live in a beautiful place and I quite understand why people want to get out and get some fresh air, especially whilst we've had such lovely weather. If I lived in one of the nearby towns I would probably want to come for a walk here too. But if people are allowed to come, then we need to provide at least basic facilities for them. It has to be safer to have car parks open, even if only alternate bays, than to have cars parked inches away from each other on narrow lanes. It has to be safer to have public toilets open than to have piles of human waste on beaches and in parks. Toilets in essential work places and public buildings like hospitals are still being cleaned so why not public toilets? Obviously each block would have to be shut for the time needed to clean and the cleaners would need full PPE, but there must be a way. Or if it really, genuinely is too dangerous to have people cleaning then it is still to dangerous for people to be allowed unlimited travel time/distance.
It needs to be one thing or the other. Either we can travel where we like and basic facilities are provided, or we need to be restricted to a certain distance or travel time from home. The current half arsed arrangements are not working as far as I can see. Maybe most of us are responsible and sensible but there are still too many who aren't, and if self regulation doesn't work, the authorities need to step in.

[managedmis]

Might be a daft question : what do you do with the contents of the porta potty? Take them home?

[Redolent]

Maybe charge £1 per use of public toilet and start recuperating council costs. People would of course pay.

[HeyBlaby]

I can see the logic but many people with disabilities need access to a toilet, they can't squat behind a tree or change a leaking stoma bag/use an intermittent catheter at the back of a car park. This is awful for them.

[Alsohuman]

If they open them, then more people will go to these places

People are going to those places anyway. They’re not deterred by closed toilets. Some places have managed to open them - perhaps they have some kind of super power the others don’t?

[toinfinityandlockdown]

@Bridecilla you're missing the point. This isn't about AONBs, this is about wherever happens to be your nearest green space not having a loo and thus as a disabled person or young child you can't get outside to green space at all. We need to have a proportional response to the virus that balances risks and benefits. People will die as a result of lockdown (not Covid 19 related). We need to keep that number to a minimum.

[rawlikesushi]

"perhaps they have some kind of super power the others don’t?"

More like they've twisted the arms of the relevant staff, or are lucky enough to have staff happy to do it, or are lucky enough to have staff who are not vulnerable or shielding.

[rawlikesushi]

"this is about wherever happens to be your nearest green space not having a loo and thus as a disabled person or young child you can't get outside to green space at all."

Yes, due to worldwide pandemic, it may be that those who need the toilet frequently will have to continue exercising close to home for now.

This is a horrible thread actually. How many people would want to clean a public toilet in full PPE (if they can get it) at the moment? Yet you want other people to do that rather than curtail your own entitlement to outdoor spaces.

[Alsohuman]

More like they've twisted the arms of the relevant staff, or are lucky enough to have staff happy to do it, or are lucky enough to have staff who are not vulnerable or shielding

Or perhaps have been planning coming out of lockdown during the eight weeks since it started, have provided their staff with adequate PPE and paid them extra from the money they saved during those eight weeks. I don’t think there was much luck involved, more a responsible can do attitude towards public health and careful planning.

[MadameMarie]

@Heyblaby Many of them will be shielding at home anyway. Yes that's awful but it is what it is.

I have a bladder condition so stay close to home. I'm not going to piss everywhere and I'm not going to use a public toilet at the moment, open or not.

[Derbygerbil]

No, i think they should remain shut. People can wee in bushes, and if they are unable to do that they will just have to refrain from travelling miles to beauty spots for the time being.

The open air may be very low risk, but I believe public toilets could well significantly increase the risk of infection, not just because they are generally filthy but due to the rather gross phenomenon of aerosolised faeces 🤢

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/04/03/scientists-say-covid-19-can-come-from-aerosolized-feces/amp/

And if their closure stops quite as many people descending on beauty spots then that’s a good thing.


Much of the time they are filthy, and

[Derbygerbil]

Yes, due to worldwide pandemic, it may be that those who need the toilet frequently will have to continue exercising close to home for now.

This.... Also, young children generally have no issues about pissing in bushes.

[rawlikesushi]

"Or perhaps have been planning coming out of lockdown during the eight weeks since it started, have provided their staff with adequate PPE and paid them extra from the money they saved during those eight weeks. I don’t think there was much luck involved, more a responsible can do attitude towards public health and careful planning."

Well maybe. Which council do you work for? I think they sound very irresponsible actually, pushing people back to that sort of work when we are barely out of the first wave, still on lockdown and have no track and trace system in place. It only takes an infected person to flush without closing the lid and the whole place would need to be deep cleaned.

[Derbygerbil]

maybe they should be left open with no cleaners working. everyone is responsible for cleaning the toilet they use......both before and after use

Wishing thinking in the extreme...

[rawlikesushi]

And could you explain how they have saved money during the past 8 weeks? Staff here are mostly redeployed to cover vital services that are overstretched, and councils are suffering the loss of myriad income streams.

If you are talking about private companies then again I'd be interested to know which sector has saved money recently?

[Derbygerbil]

It only takes an infected person to flush without closing the lid and the whole place would need to be deep cleaned.

Yes. I don’t think people realise what aerosolisation means when it comes to Covid transmission. It means microscopic particles of faecal matter remain in the air for far longer, and travel far further, than droplets that you breathe or cough out. Opening public loos is asking for a spread of Covid infections.

[AlfieandAnnieRose]

Just read in the local newspaper that the public toilets in my town and in the parks and cemeteries have reopened. Would’ve thought it’d be the same for other towns?

[Derbygerbil]

And could you explain how they have saved money during the past 8 weeks? Staff here are mostly redeployed to cover vital services that are overstretched, and councils are suffering the loss of myriad income streams.

Yes, councils have a big financial black hole due to Covid. Even if some have furloughed some staff, the costs and losses far, far outweigh any savings.

Also, a cleaner isn’t going to be able to extract aerosolise faeces from the air.

[rawlikesushi]

Some of the public toilets in my area are open. It is a very small % but yes they have opened. They are being closed periodically during the day so that they can be cleaned, which isn't often enough imo and I feel for the staff who have to do it. The local newspaper had a photo of the most enormous queue, literally dozens of people all waiting to use the ones by the beach, all touching door handles and toilet seats and locks before they even use the toilet. Then presumably touching the seat and flush and lock and door and tap and soap dispenser before washing their hands. I'd rather stay local and avoid all of that I think.

[KuckFnows]

Again it's down to common sense

Not difficult


Using a public toilet is the last place I'd want to go...

But this is mumsnet

[user1497207191]

I don't think they would have to be decontaminated between users, as long as users properly washed their hands after using the toilet and touching the handles, seats etc, so that their hands were clean and any contaminants washed off their hands before leaving the toilet block (and you would hope most people wash their hands after using the toilet generally anyway).

How would you police it? And no, most people dont wash their hands after using the toilet. You have a lot more faith in people than is borne out by reality. A lot of people are pretty filfthy.

[MerryDeath]

agreed. our local country park has reopened theirs.

[JinglingHellsBells]

People who clean toilets can wear PPE but in all honesty they do wear gloves and uniform clothing anyway so I can't see much difference!

They won't be touching any surfaces with bare hands.

why is it even an issue?