Scientists say not safe to open schools 1st June

[Plaidortartan]

Sorry if there are already threads on this - couldn’t see one when I looked.

Headline news on the Guardian - Sage says 1st June opening is a ‘dangerous decision’ . Surely the government can’t go against this very clear advice?

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/22/scientists-warn-1-june-too-early-schools-reopen-england-coronavirus-track-trace?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There is clearly a growing understanding that schools opening for a limited number of children (yes, we're not even talking all school children) is low risk. There is clearly a political agenda here that people need to understand and so not be swept up in the miscommunication of the evidence. We really need to start getting our children back to school. I'm sorry if this poses a very limited risk to teachers but, like other professions/occupations, they need to step up and stop putting themselves at the centre of this.

I'm sorry if this poses a very limited risk to teachers but, like other professions/occupations, they need to step up and stop putting themselves at the centre of this.

Seriously? @alwaysraining123 Have a

Yes, life is indeed full of risk, hunnybears. Not contesting that at all.

But they are not usefully comparable risks. You are drawing a false equivalence, which I suspect I hope you actually know.

If you are worried about your child catching Covid and dying then statistically they are probably far more likely to get injured or even killed at school drop off or pick up time. You don't keep your kids at home in case they get run over coming out of school do you?

Obviously it's not just about the kids though, it's about the adults and also kids bringing it home to other adults etc but that's a slightly different issue.

I thought government said June 1st earliest but not until 5 conditions are met. That article is not official SAGE group just people who used to be influential but no longer are who do not have access to official models scientists are using.

@alwaysraining123 we don’t know that it is a very limited risk to adults though. This is an experiment. The year groups the government are sending back first were not part of SAGE’s modelling. How is this based on ‘the science’ as the government claim? We will know more about the true risk when these groups of children go back and the data is generated. I hope you are right and it is a limited risk.

Sage scientists work for the government, you don't get the truth as Politics come into it.
The independant sage is made up of non government employees.
I'm not surprised this is the result they have come to from their research.
You don't think the gov give a damn whether we live or die, do you.
Just make sure your in tray is empty and you've made The Fat Cats lots of money before you drop dead.

@WisteriaHysteria

*Yes, life is indeed full of risk, hunnybears. Not contesting that at all.

But they are not usefully comparable risks. You are drawing a false equivalence, which I suspect I hope you actually know

I’m using an analogy to illustrate that there are risks in everything we do. Some people fail to see this because it’s a virus.... but in essence it’s similar.

I suspect if those advocating we dont open schools until Sept/October either

A- don’t work anyway
B- have job security
C- are wealthy enough financially to never need to worry

I’m guessing that the majority of the advocates would change their mind if it mean they were going to be made redundant....

This article makes it seems like it is safe... bbc.in/2yoyh7o

Hunnybears I have no skin in this game. Whether schools open or not is pretty much irrelevant to me. And I don't come under any of your three categories either.

I'm simply pointing out that your 'analogy' is extremely poor, so poor as to be virtually meaningless in terms of calculating the risk of schools re-opening, that's all.

Have a lovely weekend.

We knew the media would turn to producing articles that support reurning to school/its safety once that was govt policy though didn't we?
Like sll the horror stories when they wanted lockdown...

Of course it’s a modelled risk that is scenario based. I hope the risk turns out to be as small as the evidence currently indicates. We can only use the most reliable evidence to make informed decisions. If it turns out to be a poor outcome it doesn’t mean it was a poor decision. People appear to be being swept along in the hype from the unions and aren’t bothering to study the evidence themselves. I respect people’s right to choose for their own child whether they should return to school. However, it’s important for those with this view not to remove the option for other people. Many schools are happy to open, many teachers are happy to return to the classroom and many parents need/want to send their children. In addition, the evidence is strong that a return for some children poses a limited risk. We can’t let uninformed judgements drive our decision making as a country.

If it's not a risk, why are schools just a three hour drive away in Wales not following suit? Or the schools a few hours away in Scotland?

@WisteriaHysteria

*I have no skin in this game. Whether schools open or not is pretty much irrelevant to me. And I don't come under any of your three categories either.

I'm simply pointing out that your 'analogy' is extremely poor, so poor as to be virtually meaningless in terms of calculating the risk of schools re-opening, that's all.

Have a lovely weekend*

So what is YOUR personal reasons for feeling schools should not open at the moment?

I have little faith in the government scientists so far.

@WisteriaHysteria

Of course it’s a modelled risk that is scenario based. I hope the risk turns out to be as small as the evidence currently indicates. We can only use the most reliable evidence to make informed decisions. If it turns out to be a poor outcome it doesn’t mean it was a poor decision. People appear to be being swept along in the hype from the unions and aren’t bothering to study the evidence themselves. I respect people’s right to choose for their own child whether they should return to school. However, it’s important for those with this view not to remove the option for other people. Many schools are happy to open, many teachers are happy to return to the classroom and many parents need/want to send their children. In addition, the evidence is strong that a return for some children poses a limited risk. We can’t let uninformed judgements drive our decision making as a country

I think @alwaysraining123 has hit the nail on the head.

Just watching ITV news and said that 3 children under 14 have died of covid in the UK

They say that’s a chance of 1 in 4 million......

I mean yeah let’s ruin the economy for the next decade based on those stats 🙄

Indeed. And how many children will suffer, and die, because of increased poverty due to economic collapse? Hundreds if not thousands.

I have little faith in the government scientists so far.

It isn't the scientists, they are coming up with the right answers, it's the decisions Boris et al are making that's the problem.
I saw an interview with The Independant Sage team, they get the same results, take Politics/ economy out of it and advise something different, they have no political agenda, at all.
It's not safe for schools to open, the gov know this, but childcare is more important/ money over lives.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Exactly. Seems like people are blinkered. It’s as if there’s no consequences of keeping schools closed. If only that was the case....

hunnybears
But kids haven't been mixing, we've been in Lockdown.

they have no political agenda, at all.

snurtle

Are you fucking kidding?

Everyone has a political agenda, but many of those scientists have political offiliations.

But we also have to remember that the stats are low because schools have been closed to the vast majority of children. Most children have not been mixing with 14 others every day since March. Same thought needs applying to low teacher deaths. Vulnerable and disadvantaged children have been eligible to attend right through the lockdown, only 2% have done, what is going to change that on June 1st? Are those children actually going to attend? If not then the ‘schools need to open to save the lives of these vulnerable at risk children’ argument won’t make an ounce of difference esp as parents have the choice. Where is the social services role in the lives of these children too? Why is up to schools to do it all? Why are the vulnerable not prioritised across the school, is it only the vulnerable in reception, yr1 and 6 that matter most?

If it's not a risk, why are schools just a three hour drive away in Wales not following suit? Or the schools a few hours away in Scotland?

Scotland schools are breaking up shortly and will reopen in August. They have different term dates.

Wales won't be far behind us in reopening schools you will see.

@Devlesko

But kids haven't been mixing, we've been in Lockdown

We’re in lockdown and people are still getting it though. Single parents that need to take them shopping, so they could be exposed at shops, children that have parents who are still working and that may not realise they have it themselves as adults.