Schools reopening strategy

[Branster]

I can’t see this in recent threads

So reopening some schools is on the agenda?
Telegraph article tomorrow
21:57 update on here

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/02/coronavirus-live-news-dr-fauci-blocked-from-testifying-on-us-response?page=with:block-5eaddcf88f082b32fdd6c330#block-5eaddcf88f082b32fdd6c330

The virus will still be here in September.

Non-COVID deaths will be higher than COVID deaths the longer this lockdown goes on (when we look back in years to come, due to delayed disease diagnosis, eg cancers).

So yes I am sure the schools will start to open next month, as the lockdown will need to end. Phased approach, but hopefully all pupils will go back before summer.

The other ways to get the economy moving.

According to the above data, more than 80 per cent of our workforce do not have primary school children.

Surely the workplaces that have predominantly younger, child free staff can resume at the very least?

• @Tabby's where have you heard that Year 5 are included on the list?*

It was in The Times today and Wednesday, they need to prepare for SATS apparently (as if year 6 wasn't already a write off preparing for SATS!)

@tabby's thanks. Haven't seen anything about Y5 before (I have a Y5)

I know some unions are strongly advocating for SATS to be cancelled next year due to the uncertainty of when the schools will return & children's mental health & having to go from being at home to the constant pressure of revising for SATS.

I know mumsnet is not just filled with mums, but it definitely is not a representative sample of the UK. Obviously, on these boards, we get the impression that a very high percentage of the workforce rely on childcare, but I think the numbers of people on these boards who rely on it will be far, far higher than in the population at large.

Social distancing will not be expected in primary schools and childcare. It’s not realistic. You might be able to keep the children in small groups (so that they only interact with a smaller number of children) but I suspect that is as much as you’ll be able to do,

School closures were put in place to reduce the number of contacts between people and as an extension to that reduce the R value of the virus. Not because schools were inherently unsafe for children.

Social distancing is also about reducing the R value by reducing the number of contacts people have at a population level. Once things start to reopen the R level will be kept down using the track and trace system and those that can SD continuing to do so. Those that can SD and the other measures will make up for those that can’t SD (ie young children, certain jobs).

I’m very hopeful that young children can start to return to childcare/school in early June. A further month will hopefully see new cases drop to a level that can be adequately manages by test and trace.

I'm a school governor. I am really surprised to hear June being talked about. Up until this week we were definitely being told by LA and DFE to work on September. We were told to set the budget as though schools will not be back until sept which I took to be a pretty strong indication. OTOH things change very suddenly. We had almost no warning (a few days) of the shut down so doubtless there will be similar lack of warning on reopening.

We will have a huge staffing issue. I am told 1/3 of our staff are in vulnerable groups or live with someone who is and they will be very reluctant to come in. Unions will back this. We will not be able to get supply.
Not sure how we are supposed to get around that one. We had no clear guidance on these kind of issues pre-lockdown and it caused a lot of divisions and difficulty.

Many parents won't actually want to send their children- we will presumably have to follow usual procedures and send out letters, fines etc. Again this was a huge issue pre-lockdown with some parents insisting on sending kids with coughs and refusing to collect and others not wanting to send children and getting upset at standard attendance letters which the school has no choice but to send.

If we need to try to social distance and therefore have partial reopening it's going to require a huge amount of reorganisation of classes physically and of the curriculum. It isn't as easy as just reopen and business as usual.

It doesn't want to give me a share token, but this is what The Times said on Wednesday and reports it from Gavin Williamson:

"Children currently in Years 5, 10 and 12 would be the priority once schools reopen, Mr Williamson said, to make sure that standards do not slip in next year’s GCSEs, A levels and primary school Sats."

We will have a huge staffing issue. I am told 1/3 of our staff are in vulnerable groups or live with someone who is and they will be very reluctant to come in. Unions will back this. We will not be able to get supply.

One of the problems is though that this won't be any different in September.

I had a cal from DD’s teacher this week and she said they are expecting something similar to what TokyoSushi said upthread (we are in Wales). DD is in year 6 and they are still planning on going on their residential trip (original date in June, now have a backup date in the summer holidays).

Ffs, educational standards bleats Williamson. Tests are only used to hold teachers to account. Kids would be fine without them.

Also, anyone saying that they heard, or a teacher told them, is guessing the same as the rest of us. Schools have no information.

We will have a huge staffing issue. I am told 1/3 of our staff are in vulnerable groups or live with someone who is and they will be very reluctant to come in. Unions will back this. We will not be able to get supply.

One of the problems is though that this won't be any different in September.

^^

Yes, but my hope is that come Sept they will have made at least SOME progress with tracking and tracing, and testing. At the mo we are clueless.

Maybe it's true. I just don't see how it will be managed though if parents have kids in different year groups or if staff themselves are vulnerable. The question is, which year group will take priority and how will they ensure social distancing? Over the past few days I've seen so much crap kicking around about when schools will reopen and who will be going.

I think the government needs to be honest and say the reason why schools need to go back is to help the economy and use that as a starting point for a plan instead of pretending it's to do with standards. Having 3 months out of formal education isn't going to affect standards in the long term.

Personally, I think if the government wants to make a difference they should let kids of people who have been furloughed / self employed back in to schools so that the economy can be kick started again.

I think the government needs to be honest and say the reason why schools need to go back is to help the economy

It’s not just for the economy though is it, and Boris himself said at the conference schools need to be back for the economy to start moving, it’s hardly like they aren’t being honest.

But schools need to be back for other reasons too, for the children’s sake, to have them educated, to allow them to sociliase, if any one thinks every single kid is being treated well at home then they are living on another planet. Many will be left to just get on with it and entertain themselves, no education work even pretended to be done, some even being abused, not just neglected, not fed properly or a parent who can’t cope screaming at them when ever they feel like it. And often much worse.

So yes. Schools need to go back to get the economy moving, the prime minster stood up and said it ffs, but as the education secretary also added, they need to do it also for the sake of so very many children.

I work FE... At a push they are thinking staff will be back June but even now they are struggling to work out if and how staff can distance from each other mainly in offices etc.. Personally I'm hoping for my team that we split AM and PM so office only 50% staffed at any time but other part of day work from home. In my mind this works as we all have our own desk but will mean spaced apart better if we split the day.

I'm hoping the Year 10, 12 and 6 is correct as DS is in 6 and I would like him to have a little school routine before transition to secondary. Also for his mental well being to settle his worries, see his friends etc.

No idea how they will decide which other year groups

We can't stay locked up for 18 months.

Its not feasible. I think pretty much everyone is agreed on that.

So what do we do? September is no different than June.

I don't known why many are so fixated on June.

So we start opening things up and schools go back in June.

There will most likely be an increase in infections. Whilst We don't really know how much children spread the virus, there are many adults working in schools.

Hopefully those most at risk will be protected.

So we have 7 weeks or so of some growth and then the schools shut for the summer holidays.

Do normal illnesses spread as much during school holidays?

So the situation starts getting a bit better again.

Schools go back in September but its getting to close to winter with more bugs about and more risk.

But more kids / teachers have antibodies because they have already had the virus. So its not as bad in September as it would have been if we had kept the schools shut.

I know neither option is good I wish we could all keep ourselves virus free and we would all be happy and financially comfortable doing so (and after too) but its not the case.

I would expect there to be proper testing and contact tracing available before any school goes back.

*so many fixated on September that should read!!

So its not as bad in September as it would have been if we had kept the schools shut

Exactly. 100 percent accurate. There is no perfect answer. We need to live with this virus, not hide in our homes away from it, it’s not the answer, it is worst case. September isn’t some magic date the scientists have said all will be good by. In fact it’s the opposite, if we stayed shut down till September, so many more would be living in poverty not just the four million children in the uk today, so much more mass unemployment, so much more higher our taxes and so much more chance to breach the nhs because it’s the start of flu season.

September would be disastrous if we stayed locked down till then.

The Telegraph need to be shut down for their reporting over schools. As do the Times.

They are both adding huge fuel to anxiety of parents, children and staff.

I’m all for freedom of the press, but that doesn’t mean they can just make shit up.

My point is that It's a lie to pretend that schools going back in June has anything to do with the welfare of children / education. It's not - it's mainly pressure from parents that's driving this. I get to see both sides of this, from working in a school and having 2 DCs in different year groups and different schools. It's the same parents who are bleating about how their DCs need to be educated and how important it is that they go back. There aren't any conversations about vulnerable children / abused kids on any of the parent groups I'm on.

Sorry to disappoint you but school openings are being used as a way to curry to favour with the middle class population and to force schools / TUs into into a corner.

First Minister Mark Drakeford has said schools in Wales could reopen at the beginning of next month

Asked for an indication about when pupils could return, he told the BBC’s Andew Marr Show: “Our advice from the trade unions and from the local education authorities is that you will need three weeks as a minimum from the point that we decide to do that, to when schools can reopen, so we are talking about the beginning of June.”

Drakeford said some groups could return earlier than others, citing the examples of year-six children who are due to move up to secondary school and Welsh medium pupils who may not have had opportunities to use the language at home during lockdown

Yy Freddie

The school is the least of my worries. How exactly do you social distance on a bus in peak time.

It’s no good telling me to stay home for 12 weeks because I’m high risk but then send my child out there to bring it home to me. I got off lightly with my CV and mild symptoms and that was bad enough, there is nothing to suggest it can’t be caught again and whilst I’d like to think my immune system is now strong enough to fight it even though I am high risk I can’t say I want to potentially keep catching it every other month either.

The problem as I see it, is that everyone goes to school and therefore everyone thinks they're an expert in how schools should run and operate.

In this case, the government needs to listen to what educators are saying as well as medical professionals and not just guess.