Vitamin D Supplementation and covid-19 Risk

[MissConductUS]

Evidence that Vitamin D Supplementation Could Reduce Risk of Influenza and COVID-19 Infections and Deaths.


I just thought I'd pass this along as vitamin D supplementation is cheap and easy and so many of us in cloudy climates have low vitamin D levels. Too much is not better. 4000 IU per day is considered the largest safe dose for adults and should be reduced for children based on body weight.

[LWJ70]

5th Vit D3 study from Belgium.

Males showed markedly higher percentage of vitamin D deficiency ..Vit D deficiency is a possible risk factor for severe infection in males. Vit D3 supplementation might be an inexpensive, accessible and safe mitigation for covid

Link :
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.20079376v1

[LWJ70]

Indian study out today, 176 covid 19 patients (previously checked serum levels).

Same findings as the New Orleans, Indonesian and Philippines studies:

100% of critical patients less than 75 years old had Vitamin D insufficiency

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3593258

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/SSRN-id3593258.pdf

[sassbott]

Taking it with K2 minimises the toxicity by redirecting excess calcium to bones/ teeth. My GP said it is very hard to get to toxic levels and that daily intake of 1,000 to 3,000 would still be ok for me.

How much each individual needs is different. People absorb it differently. It’s why my Gp said that for my levels to return to anywhere near healthy levels of normal could take up to 6 months. They have no idea.

If you have a history of being severely deficient then I would suggest doing the postal NHS test I linked above to keep an eye on levels. And until my levels are between 50-75 then I intend on continuing to take 3,000 daily. Once at those levels I’ll probably drop to once a week.

[girlofthenorth]

Yes so, what is the best dosage of vit d for the average person to take ? I am very confused by all the data ! Plus aware too much can cause toxicity .

[Saucery]

Prescribing Vit D varies between areas. I had blood tests that highlighted a deficiency and the GP said hurriedly “we don’t prescribe it any more, you can get it from health food shops”. When I asked him what strength he would advise he was very vague and told me to “look it up”. I had no intention of asking for a prescription, as I wouldn’t ask for one for iron, paracetamol etc, but I did find the lack of advice unacceptable when my results clearly highlighted a deficiency clearly under the norm of ‘low’ even for the area I live in.
Diet good, sun exposure cautious but adequate under guidelines. More than happy to buy a supplement, but would have liked a bit more guidance.

[Keepdistance]

I guess with supplements it's
-how much is in it
-how long have people been taking

As ive probably said my dc vitamins vary 2.5,5,10 micrograms with most kids ones only 5 or less and the recommendations being 10.
Same with adult. It's mainly very low.
Perhaps the advice should be BAME and anyone thinking they are low to start off with a high dose supplement then lower it.
With perhaps care homes giving injections ?
It is becoming harder to get hold of the higher strength vit d.
So gov need to step up and start fortifying and asking manufacturers to up production.

[LWJ70]

The third study in the world that shows a clear relationship with vitamin D deficiency and covid 19 severity has been published. It's a study from Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center, New Orleans.
20 patients, randomly sampled.
Conclusions:

''Strikingly, 100% of intensive care patients less than 75 years old had vitamin D deficiency. Among these, 64.6% had critically low (less than 20ng/mL) and three had less than 10 ng/mL.''

Only one of the randomly sampled patients was caucasian - the other 19 were afro american and hispanic.

The study also cites 33 references of causal evidence.

Here is the link.

//www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1.full.pdf

A number of the patients were taking vitamin D supplements. So safe sunlight exposure must be more important and the much lower deaths rates in equatorial and southern hemisphere regions are surely explained by this.

SAGE, the group of scientists that advises Public Health England only meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so they will not have seen this study. I doubt whether they have read the previous two conclusive blood studies.

Even if SAGE does read these three studies, they do not have any specialist molecular virologists or immunologists to professionally interpret and evaluate the scientific evidence:

'Government rushes out request for experts to work with Sage panel Notice sent to universities amid concern over lack of expertise in parts of Covid-19 advisory group''

''The government's secret science group has a shocking lack of expertise''

//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/27/gaps-sage-scientific-body-scientists-medical

//www.theguardian.com/science/2020/apr/29/government-rushes-out-request-for-experts-bolster-sage-panel

In the meantime thousands of elderly are dying in care homes. The government can't even be bothered to test all of them for covid and vit D def. and administer any vitamin D3 supplements. If only they knew.

[sassbott]

The NHS does issue vitamin D prescriptions. I last year was prescribed a 6 week dose of one tablet per week, 60,000 iu strength. Then advised to maintain OTC as that dosage moved me out of the severely deficient range. And I have been maintained / been taking OTC D3 (with K2) ever since.

Those high dosages are still available and I cannot imagine they are decreasing production. I expect most Gp’s / clinics are expecting an increase in people coming to them to get prescription strength Vit D following getting their blood tests done (available online from an NHS lab for £29).

I’m stunned if most the population haven’t started to take some form of vit D.

[Igneococcus]

Yes, both UVA and UVB cause tans, but only UVB makes Vit D and UVB gets filtered out by the atmosphere and if the sun is lower in the sky there is more atmosphere to get through hence no Vit D production in winter.
I worked on UV induced DNA damage repair for a few years, I wouldn't go anywhere near a a tanning bed. The thought makes me shudder.

[lljkk]

This says that UVB causes both sunburn & making vitamin D.

Other sources say that both UVA & UVB makes a person look tan although UVA is more important for getting tan... and that UVB stays at 5% of the total at all times.

DH who insists that he only burns & never tans.. .is quite tan at the moment.

[MmNashville]

Well aware of this. Some evidence it helps prevent resp infections.

NHS say to carry on all year due to likely deficiency of being indoors.

I take the tablet daily for about a month then use the spray (K2 and D3) to keep topped up.

Truly believe it would meam far less death from flu (any) if we all took some D3.

[Freeasabirdy]

I was tested a couple of years ago by my GP and was severely deficient but was told told that the nhs doesn’t prescribe Vit D? Obviously that’s not true but I have had no trouble buying it online for my maintenance dose.

[Igneococcus]

lljkk

As far as I understand it, It's mostly UVB that is blocked by the atmosphere when the sun is at low angles, not UVA. So you still tan (and can get oxidative damage) but don't make Vit D.

[LWJ70]

@Lumene
This study is interesting and discusses why despite correlation, vit D may be helpful or harmful at different stages - but we just don’t know:

chrismasterjohnphd.com/covid-19/update-on-vitamin-d-and-covid-19-using-the-first-observational-study-released

It is really interesting that replying to a post summarising data from two vit D3 serum level covid papers from a total of nearly covid 1000 patients you have quoted a response from Chris Masterjohn who has this text pinned to the bottom of his website:

''Chris Masterjohn has a Phd in Nutritional Sciences and is not a medical doctor.Nothing on this site constitutes medical advice. Never use this information as a substitute for medical advice''

Chris Masterjohn is showing his bare six pack on his website.
I have seen a twitter feed from Erik Hermstad MD MBA who is a ICU specialist on the frontline in Kansas, USA. I've checked his website and twitter feed - he is legit. Erik Hermstad's page on his hospital page is here:
www.uchealth.org/provider/erik-l-hermstad-md-emergency-medicine/

In the twitter thread, Erik Hermstead is replying to Chris Masterjohn's ''belief'' that healthy vitamin D3 levels promote cytokine storms. He was surprised and went back to his covid 19 patients' records and found:

*''I saw@ChrisMasterjohn post something about how he wasn't taking vitamin D because it could potentially increase ACE-2 receptors. So, I started checking it on my admitted COVID patients out of curiosity. Invariably, it has been low

[MissConductUS]

Thanks for all of the replies! When I first posted this I had no replies for days and was starting to think everyone thought I was daft but was too polite to say so.

@LWJ70 - thanks for the additional research link, very informative.

[MaxNormal]

sashh I was taking it before the covid outbreak anyway. My levels drop hideously low if I don't. But I've always bought my own rather than have them on prescription.
I'm not sure what's stopping you buying some and taking the level you require? You can get drops so you're controlling your own dosage if you don't want to take a lot of tablets.

[sashh]

@sashh how is me buying vitamin D hurting you?

The manufacturer is now respond tot he demand for OTC so they are not making prescription stregnth.

The reality is that most people in the Uk do need it.

And if people had been taking it then the supply wouldn't be an issue. Well need toilet paper but people suddenly buying more than they actually need caused a shortage.

[Caramel78]

A side effect of taking too much vit d is bad palpitations so if you start getting those then ease off the dosage.

[sassbott]

@sashh I too was tested for vitamin d and my deficiency was at shockingly low single digits too.
But I would never ask posters to not buy vitamin d ‘if they don’t need it’ as a result.
The reality is that most people in the Uk do need it. We’ve had a shockingly grey/ wet winter which meant a lot of the Uk didn’t get out much. Now with lockdown we’re out even less.

So the reality is that most people should take it.
(Take D3 with K2). I fail to understand how you can’t get it, tons still available on Amazon and in pharmacies.

[PowerslidePanda]

But I don't think it would hurt most people to supplement esp of the winter months.

Just be careful with dosage. The study that @Lumene linked to speculates that higher levels could actually prove to be harmful for COVID-19 due to the relationship between vitamin D and ACE2.

[MaxNormal]

@sashh how is me buying vitamin D hurting you?

[lljkk]

"sun's angle is only at a point where we absorb vit d beween near end of april to near end of August! "

That's weird. DD got sunburn end of March this year (latitude 52.8 degrees). Everyone in my house who tans easily is very brown or very freckly right now. We're outside 1-3 hrs/day. Today is cloudy. Not a day to turn into walnuts.

[Hannah888]

Yes namechanger. I read this recently but noted it takes months to get the level up. I am taking them for the next peak. I need to check maxi mum dose with pharmatist. Orange helps with absorbtion. Sun is so much better of course


G

[ChasingRainbows19]

@sashh but the NHS/dept of health advice has been suggestive for us to take a supplement over winter as we don't get enough sunlight or enough from food (not just because of this outbreak) I bought one spray bottle. I'm not taking it now as I've been able to sit in the sun.

I'm sorry you can't get your prescription. I presume it's a different dosage the available online or in pharmacy as there are lots available still online.

I absolutely noticed the difference over winter this year with taking it.

[sashh]

But I don't think it would hurt most people to supplement esp of the winter months.

It's hurting me.

I had a severe deficiancy (single figures) and have not been able to get Vitamin D with my prescription.

So please don't take it if you don't need it.