Footpath over my property

[Number12]

We have a Footpath that runs over our property. As you can imagine its very busy at the moment, in fact I've never seen it so busy. Normally we smile, wave chat etc But at the moment that's just not possible. The path itself is single file, room to shuffle past someone oncoming but nothing like 2 metres.

Its been very difficult to be in the garden, I just can't relax because every 30 seconds Im checking to see if anyone is coming and then stepping away with the kids if I see someone. There have been several occasions people have come along and I've not seen or heard them and not one of them has shouted ahead and let me know so I can move away, they just try and pretend they are not there!. The path is half a metre, if that, from where we are working (trying to get veggie going). We have just had three cyclists go past, they didn't shout or ring a bell and we didn't have time to move away.

I've previously emailed the council and they were concerned but they haven't closed the path. So today I did! I know it's illegal but I need to keep my family safe, if people shouted ahead that would be one thing but they don't care!

Ahhh I have I messed up, what would you do?

[puptent]

I think these are unprecedented times and if councils can red tape park benches and shops limit people who enter then you can try and limit the traffic through your garden.

I wouldn't red tape though, that might be red rag to a bull. Rather, explain.

Either put a sign at each end saying 'self-isolating' or if you want to offer more explanation, something like 'We are self-isolating at this property. Please enter only if path is clear, observe the 2m distance or perhaps consider an alternate route. Thank you for your understanding during this time'.

If I saw that I'd probably turn around tbh.

[CheddarGorgeous]

I think these are unprecedented times and if councils can red tape park benches and shops limit people who enter then you can try and limit the traffic through your garden.

Councils are acting under legal authority (or not, I don't know) but no mandate - legal or otherwise - has been given to private individuals to decide whether or not to block public rights of way.

The public right of way trumps OPs desire to enjoy her garden undisturbed.

[RoombaSavedMySanity]

Why should Op and her family be put at such increased risk due to the selfishness of others.

I'm not sure using a public right of way as part of your exerise route is "selfishness".

[ErrolTheDragon]

• Definitely add signs, reiterating that all journeys must be essential, path is otnarrow so social distancing not possible therefore risk of virus, recommending alternative route to protect everyone etc etc. I’m sure you can word it in a way that would make someone think twice.
  *
  
  Not sure why someone gave that a lol ... it would make me think twice. (I do walk a lot in the countryside).
  
  I put a link upthread by our staunch guardians of our rights of way, the Ramblers Association which includes this advice from DEFRA and Natural England (so, not just randoms on MN):
  
  ^ Under existing legislation and in normal circumstances, Local Authorities in England cannot close footpaths for public health reasons nor can landowners close footpaths which run across their land. However, due to the Coronavirus, Defra and Natural England have published new guidance covering very limited circumstances where large numbers of people are using such routes. This guidance allows for landowners to consider the following measures:
  • tying gates open if it is safe to do so, so that walkers do not need to touch the gate.
  • temporarily displaying polite notices that encourage users to respect local residents and workers by following social distancing guidelines and consider using alternative routes that do not pass through gardens, farmyards or schools.
  • offering an alternative route around gardens and farmyards only where it is safe to do so provided that the original right of way is maintained.^
  
  A notice and suggestions of alternatives is exactly what she should do, and walkers should be considerate if they see such notices. (And cyclists should stick to bridleways)

[sashh]

Could you do a semi block?

Put a sign saying you are shielding but will be using your garden between X am and Y pm.

Say that the right of way is through your garden and recommend another route.

Ask people to not access at that time and recommend they disinfect the gate / rails / fence before they touch it.

[ErrolTheDragon]

I'm not sure using a public right of way as part of your exerise route is "selfishness".

It's selfish to use it inconsiderately when with a tiny amount of thought you could use it considerately. If everyone had done that in the first place the OP wouldn't have had an issue.

[Carlislemumof4]

I'm not sure using a public right of way as part of your exerise route is "selfishness".

I'd say it is. Locals can exercise in their own homes and gardens or get fresh air outside their back door. No one needs to be out on a cycle, traipsing across private land. Anyone not local shouldn't be there full stop.

All sorts of public spaces and venues are currently closed. Authorities are saying the Lakes are closed, why aren't footpaths. Again this is definitely causing preventable spread of covid-19 here in Cumbria.

[RoombaSavedMySanity]

I dunno. The sum total of their 'crime' seems to be not yelling out.

I would imagine people just have felt a bit awkward about shouting out and/or (depending on the layout) been a bit surprised to find themselves so close to a garden. I can think of a few local pathways here, where it's not clear this will happen until you're there already.

If it's locals/the same people repeateadly using the path, then asking them to yell a warning might be the answer. If i's new people all the time then signs might help.

[corabel]

I can't actually see the difference between this and my next door neighbour being close to the fence in their garden. You have the option to step away.

[MyHeartBurnsThereToo]

Locals can exercise in their own homes and gardens or get fresh air outside their back door.

Can they? Maybe in your specific location - and I agree touristy spots probably need a different approach to most foothpaths - but for many people this simply is not true.

The public right to walk these footpaths is incredibly important and if we lose it, we really do lose something very, very special. There are many other ways to try and solve the issue of walkers being too close to a vegetable patch without jumping straight to path closure.

[Elbels]

It wouldn't occur to me to shout out if I was walking down a path!

If the path is fenced off I'm struggling to see just how close people can get to you?

[MarshallPNutt]

I'm not sure using a public right of way as part of your exerise route is "selfishness".

Totally agree. The word selfish is banded around on here for any old thing.

Signs, bells, a screen, tending vegetables at quieter times of day or days of the week - all possible solutions. The public's right to walk these pathways and thus gain access to the countryside which would otherwise be closed off to them, is sacrosanct, imo.

[LovelyPuddings]

I think I must have walked a large portion of the thousands of miles of public pathways and have been very glad to be able to - especially at times in my life where I had no garden and they were my only chance at some real greenery.

It also wouldn't occur to me to shout out - in fact I'd be reluctant to, imagining that everyone shouting out would be irritating to the gardener. If I saw a sign asking me to then I'd be glad to oblige.

Surely that's all it takes?

[iWantToBreakBrie]

Sensible guidelines here:

www.blackburn.gov.uk/transport-and-travel/coronavirus/public-rights-way/coronavirus-and-public-rights-way

Especially...

"People living and working in close proximity to public rights of way are reminded that the public have a legal right to use a public right of way and that they should not block or obstruct paths."

and...

"You may also wish to inform the public using the public right of way of their responsibilities by displaying an appropriate notice.

This should not discourage use, but alert users to their proximity to homes and working environments and work as a reminder to use appropriate and reasonable caution in terms of social distancing and hygiene guidelines."

and finally...

"Public rights of way provide an opportunity for people to take exercise in their local area and get some fresh air in these difficult times.

However, people should not be making special journeys to access them, and should not congregate on public rights of way."

[Carlislemumof4]

Can they? Maybe in your specific location

I live on a mainly terraced street in Carlisle. We can here apart from a weekly visit to the supermarket.

In my parents Lakes village where I grew up yes they can too... but many won't because they refuse to change aspects of their lifestyle. Without caring much about the health of the farmers and their families who own and maintain the land.

[GirlYouHaveNoFaithInMedicine]

Government (DEFRA) guidelines on this very subject here - www.gov.uk/government/news/operational-update-covid-19

'Landowners do not have the legal right to block or obstruct public rights of way. However, in very limited circumstances where large numbers of people are using such routes, landowners may consider the following measures:

tying gates open if it is safe to do so, so that walkers do not need to touch the gate.

temporarily displaying polite notices that encourage users to respect local residents and workers by following social distancing guidelines and consider using alternative routes that do not pass through gardens, farmyards or schools.

offering an alternative route around gardens and farmyards only where it is safe to do so (you must gain permission from relevant landowners and make sure the route is safe for users and livestock) provided that the original right of way is maintained.'

[Aesopfable]

Why should Op and her family be put at such increased risk due to the selfishness of others.

Why should OPs desire to build a vegetable patch in a specific location take priority over people’s right to use a public right of way. If she wanted to build her vegetable patch in front of her house next to the road would you consider it selfish of people to use the road? Or do you think she should be able to close the road too in case someone selfishly wants to drive along it?

Public rights of way must be protected. Too many landowners come up with too many excuses to try and close them all the time.

[ErrolTheDragon]

You have the option to step away.

If you're on your knees tending your garden that may take a moment...

I'm finding some people's attitudes on this thread rather odd. We walk a lot; even in normal times if the path took us next to where people were working and playing in their gardens we'd probably say 'excuse me' and definitely would at the moment to help maintain our distance too.

I'm a massive fan of our rights of way, especially after living in the US - but that makes me happy to use them responsibly and considerately, not bluster about my rights. Rights are always balanced by responsibilities.

[FuriousFlannels]

The location of the veg patch so close to a public footpath is odd but presumbaly this was placed before the current outbreak and so not seen as an issue.

Really glad to see the OP has reopened the path, though. This should never be done by landowners acting on their own authority. The public has a legal right to walk those paths and so removing those rights must only be done by the government or other institution with the legal ability to do so.

The advice linked above seems very clear to me. Paths must stay open but there are some things landowners can do, such as signage.

[MaggieFS]

Don't do anything illegal. I'm surprised you're so concerned now you've mentioned it's fenced off - so people can't actually stray into your garden, just might be less than 2m depending on where you and your family are in the garden? Stick up a sign claiming symptoms if you like, but then you can't go out at all for essential shopping, or just live with it and ask people to shout their arrival.

[ErrolTheDragon]

The location of the veg patch so close to a public footpath is odd

It's no odder than people having a flower border next to a pavement. And when walking through our village on the pavement, if someone has been working on one then we behave sensibly to allow for distancing for us and them - cross the road or if necessary say excuse me and wait.

[Astoatora54]

Lots of people don’t have gardens. You have a garden which is subject to the public’s right to use that footpath. If you don’t like that you can always just stay inside.

Sorry but I agree with this poster. The path is next to your garden. If you want to keep 2m away from people then presumably your garden is wider than 2m? Just move further away. You can't block other people from public footpaths (why would you think this is possible?) but you can change your own behaviour.

[Porpoises]

I would put a sign asking people to shout or whistle. I wouldn't shout in that situation as I'd be worried the householders would find it rude. So you should tell people that's what you want.

[FliesandPies]

I'm a massive fan of our rights of way, especially after living in the US - but that makes me happy to use them responsibly and considerately, not bluster about my rights. Rights are always balanced by responsibilities.

You're a 'massive fan' of rights of way but consider people's insistence on them to be 'bluster'? Doesn't add up to me. The only reason we've got rights of way is because enough people blustered about them and ensured they were kept open and whole organisations are dedicated to protecting them.

As Aeso'p says above, people are always looking for excuses to shut paths and then conveniently forget to open them again when the crisis is over

[FuriousFlannels]

I would put a sign asking people to shout or whistle. I wouldn't shout in that situation as I'd be worried the householders would find it rude.

Me too. I'd actually be glad of the sign letting me know what the house owners wanted.