Why wouldn’t the Chief Nurse confirm how many NHS staff have died?

[Skybluepink123]

I’ve just been watching today’s press briefing and don’t understand why Ruth May refused to confirm how many NHS staff had died from Covid?
She cited a lack of family consent which prevented her from talking about individuals but that wasn’t the information that the reporter sought. Also, I’m cross that she started her speech by acknowledging her happiness that the PM was getting better but failed to acknowledge the near 1000 families who are grieving today.
One more (trivial) thing. How comes she’s managed a hair cut in between press briefings?

[starlightgazers]

19 NHS worker deaths, out of 8,958 deaths in the UK overall = 0.2% of deaths

Ah -that's OK then eh . The point is, many of these deaths would have been preventable. Also, deaths of those in the NHS are likely to go up during the peak and beyond, as they do not have the luxury of being able to lockdown/ practice social distancing.

Does anyone know how many retail staff, postmen, retirees, civil servants, bankers, lawyers, cleaners etc etc have died?

Which is also sad, but PPE that the government/ NHS are supposed to have is not relevant to those groups. Their employers would have been responsible for protecting them.

[BrightRedBeanie]

The point is, many of these deaths would have been preventable.

You don't know that, do you? You don't know where they picked up the virus from. High chance of it being picked up at work obviously, but there are going to be deaths across all sections of society. Even NHS and social care staff interact with society - they can't don PPE 24/7.

The numbers would be more helpful with a broader context.

[BrightRedBeanie]

And no, it's not ok, not at all.

The government strategy not to test, not to lockdown earlier, not to provide adequate PPE, not to isolate incoming travellers etc etc etc - may have led to preventable deaths. But it isn't limited to NHS workers.

[starlightgazers]

Not sure why you'd think ur curiosity is more important than national security?
this question will easily have an impact on the other NHS staff's moral. It serves no one other ur curious self

Why are you repeating yourself? Your 'theory was a load of bollocks the first time, and still is.

If you think it would be ethical (or sensible) to cover the amount up to stop NHS leaving, you are deluded. There are other ways of finding out, and most NHS workers already know this.

[starlightgazers]

But it isn't limited to NHS workers

No, it isn't but as I said before, PPE in the NHS was a government responsibility, not true in private industry.

Also, those involved in actually caring for people with COVID-19 are way more likely to catch it and die from it, due the nature of the work and levels of viral dose involved.

[starlightgazers]

You don't know that, do you

Oh ffs - of course not but when you lack a fit tested mask, goggles etc and people are coughing, puking etc right near you I'd say there was a good chance some will be preventable. The poor Dr who died recently had already written to the government to demand adequate PPE. We are going to work daily without adequate protection and protection, shame on you if you find that acceptable. We may be NHS workers but just like others we are also parents, and loved ones and we are also scared.

I thought the clapping was quite sweet at first, but I'm out from now on. If people truly gave a shit about our NHS workers etc and appreciated them, they'd be worried about the scandal of PPP, not trying to minimise it.

[BrightRedBeanie]

I'm not minimising it, I'm asking for more transparency on the data.

If all NHS workers had adequate PPE from the start, some would still be dying from community exposure to Covid. Just like 'normal' people are dying.

Not saying it's ok that NHS staff are dying FFS.

And for what it's worth, am also an NHS worker, so get off your high horse.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

I don’t believe it was government strategy to not provide adequate PPE there simply wasn’t enough and the organisation of getting PPE to trusts was poor (as shown a few weeks ago that a warehouse I think in Scotland was full of PPE and was waiting for distribution)

We didn’t receive it all in one go. And only just received the face shields but don’t have gowns (and brief training on donning and doffing and and the disposable) They are also changing the PPE guidelines new ones came out yesterday but this seems to be changing regularly)

I do appreciate good honest journalism what I don’t is conspiracy theories or touching on that there are hidden numbers.

It’s very worrying going into work at the moment (I don’t watch the news with ds I try to protect him from the truth) I’m not a trained health care worker but also now working as one we absolutely should have had more training and adequate PPE weeks ago I am well aware of that but I still feel families and colleagues absolutely need to be protected we know colleagues are dying we know all to well there has been inadequate PPE we know the government has fucked up in their preparation and we should have had more testing

[BeetrootRocks]

'Does anyone know how many retail staff, postmen, retirees, civil servants, bankers, lawyers, cleaners etc etc have died?

Which is also sad, but PPE that the government/ NHS are supposed to have is not relevant to those groups. Their employers would have been responsible for protecting them.'

This is a really harsh comment tbh.

People are going into work to keep things going in retail, transport. TFL has had a fair few bus drivers die.

These people are all important, and getting out and doing their jobs and going back to their families and worrying.

[Summerofloaf]

I think none of them knew the exact number. They all looked at each other a bit awkwardly when it was asked.

[BeetrootRocks]

NHS is third largest employer in the world.

1.5 million.

Of course they don't know.

[checkedcloth]

There are some absolutely vile comments here.

I’m a ‘corporate arse licking nurse’ as so politely described by previous posters. I’ve been nursing for 26 years and whilst my role doesn’t require direct patient care, I pride myself on being in the clinical area and more importantly listening to nurses and patients experiences. I make a Significant contribution to patients across a massive organisation - regularly working 50 hours plus.

And to those who are so critical of Ruth. Firstly, she is dyslexic - so she may not be the polished version that you seem to be expecting

She has made a massive difference to nursing since becoming CNO, finally we have a strategy as a profession that aims to increase the profile of our profession. Do you honestly believe someone becomes the CNO of England without truly being committed to patients and nurses?

She’s not a ‘Tory nurse’ btw - she’s the CNO of NHSE and NHSI, which are not politically based organisations.

And maybe just think, she may well be finding this pretty hard going? She has children, she’s travelling a lot at the moment, and I believe is trying her absolute best.

Shame that we have so many ‘expert’ posters here who are just so unforgiving.

[Oblomov20]

I too thought it was very poor of her. No one asked for their names. Just the numbers. Which she clearly didn't WANT to give.

[lyralalala]

If she didn’t know the numbers because the press conference is not long after the figures are released all she had to say was “As the figures have not long released I don’t have an up to date figure, but as of 9am/yesterday/last Tuesday X number of nurses had died”

Waffling and not answering the actual question just makes her look like she’s in training to be a politician.

[toryandproud]

ah, the "kinder politics" in action on this thread I see

[Egghead68]

I think she was hesitant on the numbers because the government/NHS don’t want there to be any admittance of culpability for the deaths (with all the law suits that could happen when this is over).

It was noticeable that Matt Hancock has been very keen to stress that we don’t know that NHS staff caught the virus at work and that it could have been in their daily lives.

[checkedcloth]

Not really Toryandproud. Just someone far far closer to this than many of the posters on this thread who a) no very little of the actual truth and b) are really not helping anyone.

Does it actually help anyone to suggest that Ruth isn’t up to the job or appears nonplussed about her colleagues dying?

God forbid you might accept that she is doing her upmost best, has a wealth of experience behind and moreover genuinely cares about her profession?

But no - keep the scaremongering going. Really helpful

[user1497207191]

Rather than hysterical conspiracy theories, has anyone thought they may simply not know??

"The NHS" isn't a single employer. It includes huge numbers of separate entities, including trusts and even GP surgeries, all of whom will have their own admin/payroll systems. There won't be a central database showing everyone.

It'll be a huge job to obtain and tabulate data from each different "employer" within the NHS. I guess they may be a little busy right now doing more important things than phoning around every part of the NHS to get numbers to satisfy a journalist!

I'd prefer the number crunchers to be compiling statistics as to the age, ethnicity, health issues, etc of those who have died and been badly impacted to try to provide more useful data about the highest risk groups so that they can be first to get the vaccines and in the meantime, be best protected.

[MythicalBiologicalFennel]

Of course they don't know.

And yet other countries are able to gather this data and share it with the public without mass panic. Why the lack of transparency?

All the grand, empty rhetoric about testing, the PPE to come in future and the support for the NHS is useless; when compared to real action taken it's infuriating and chilling.

[lyralalala]

I'd prefer the number crunchers to be compiling statistics as to the age, ethnicity, health issues, etc of those who have died and been badly impacted to try to provide more useful data about the highest risk groups so that they can be first to get the vaccines and in the meantime, be best protected

the highest risk groups?

You mean like the people working with patients with it every single day?

The number of NHS staff dying from this is a must know figure in protecting the front line staff and keeping the health service functioning surely?

[coconuttelegraph]

Coming back to this thread now we've at least had a number although there seems to be a suggestion that it's on the low side. I have to say I was expecting a much larger number as anecdotally it doesn't seem that much higher than the transport staff deaths that have been publicly reported. The incidence amongst bus drivers would appear to be a much higher %age, do we have figures for those?

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

Ruth May isn’t particularly a good public speaker (as with some of the others that have been speaking at the press conferences) you can see she is nervous, the pressure she is under is immense and if it wasn’t for the situation we are in she wouldn’t be under such public scrutiny.

A good speaker would have handled the question differently a play on words but would we have had a different answer no. Someone answering more confidently would have made us feel more confident.

Would she have known exact numbers maybe not and then are we including possible deaths that day and day before. all NHS workers or only those working in ICU or working on other COVID-19 wards. What about paramedics, other areas where they are looking after those with COVID-19 but it’s not a hospital setting (community, mental health). I think what we have heard from Italy are the numbers working in ICU but is that an exact number, a few days out how do we know

There is absolutely no way numbers will be hidden if not families, friends or colleagues speaking out the unions certainly won’t be hushed.

[Baaaahhhhh]

The BBC has an article on the confirmed healthcare workers who have recently died. It reflects how careful we need to be before numbers are given. I suspect they are being really careful how they represent the healthcare workers, but certainly, in some cases, it seems that some of those included were not front-line, or even working in NHS at the time of their deaths.

[TheLadyAnneNeville]

@Baaaahhhh ... then protection for all is key. All those who are key workers “out there” keeping the country running.